Gas Prices

[gerard]

I am gonna get this forum started. I was on my way home today and noticed prices of $2.85 for gas. Now remember I am in nj where gas is probably one of the cheapest. WTF is going on. Didn't we take over a country that has oil? Why not just take some. Or make us some damn hydrogen cars already. Hell, I'll even take one that runs on natural gas!

[The Voice]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

I knew this topic would come up soon!!!!

$2.85 for regular gas or is that for mid- premium??

Here in So. Cal I've been paying anywhere from $2.89 - $3.09, based on where I travel.

But yes, The Audi is $50 to fill, and they ladies truck is $70 to fill. Gas is getting to be a bit ridiculous yes!! $200 a week for gas is out of control!!

[Fae]

Oh how I love my $76 dollar unlimited ride metro card. I haven't worried about gas prices since I was about 18.

[The Voice]

A bus pass?? or is that for the subway??

We don't have a public services in Bear, plus I travel way to far way to often to not have the Audi!

[Fae]

Subway and bus, though I rarely ever take a bus in the city. I'm a big fan of public transportation, and fortunately, it's really cheap to get to the other cities I go most often (Philly & DC).

[gerard]

that price is for regular. It was about $2.50 yesterday though! This is just absolutley insane. Either they make gas cheaper, or they find us another way to drive around. The thing that pisses me off is that they have all of these ways to power a car, but the oil/gas companies lobby the government to not persue any of them. This world is just insane!

[cuethebirds]

its 3+ in some places in cali

[NEFFsteeze]

I am gonna get this forum started. I was on my way home today and noticed prices of $2.85 for gas. Now remember I am in nj where gas is probably one of the cheapest. WTF is going on. Didn't we take over a country that has oil? Why not just take some. Or make us some damn hydrogen cars already. Hell, I'll even take one that runs on natural gas!


We can't just take their oil because its the mian source of their economy that we are trying to help right now. The mian reason prices are going up are because there is less oil and the threat of terror attacks causing the workers to strike for more pay every soo often. They feel that there wages aren't worth the risk so they go higher which causes the oil company to seel it for higher and so on and so forth.

They do have some hydrogen cars already in washington DC but they cannot mass produce them because there are no hydrogen fill up stations.

[kelly]

Subway and bus, though I rarely ever take a bus in the city. I'm a big fan of public transportation, and fortunately, it's really cheap to get to the other cities I go most often (Philly & DC).

I'm with you, except i mostly have to take the bus. Some of the busses are kinda skeezy, but I get to ride free with my school ID! Yay. When I get a car, I think I'll get a prius tho, so I don't have to worry so much about gas $. Plus, I'm a tree hugger.

[Justleftlife]

NOOOOO kelly dont get a prius get a honda hatch back 40 miles to the gallon it also cheeper to buy then a prius to... so last night gass was 238 its now 279!!!! oh dear i am neeed to get rid of my camry and get me my honda!!! damn it!

[SnoChica]

$2.59 yesterday. After Katrina, $2.79. And I think that rather than worry about how much we pay for gas, we should really think about how lucky we all are to have homes and food. I have the feeling New Orleans will never be back to it's original state.

[The Voice]

Yeah I think so also, they are AT SEA LEVEL, it's going to take for ever to get all that damn water out of there. It may become the new coastline!!

[kelly]

NOOOOO kelly dont get a prius get a honda hatch back 40 miles to the gallon it also cheeper to buy then a prius to... so last night gass was 238 its now 279!!!! oh dear i am neeed to get rid of my camry and get me my honda!!! damn it!
Well, I'd consider a honda hatchback too, but what's wrong with a prius? My friend who has one is averaging about 55 miles per gallon.

[kelly]

Yeah I think so also, they are AT SEA LEVEL, it's going to take for ever to get all that damn water out of there. It may become the new coastline!!
Actaully isn't a lot of the city below sea level? I wonder how they'll even get it to drain.

[The Voice]

55 miles to the gallon, must be nice, the Audi gets like 30 and the truck gets like 10

[kelly]

10? That's just wrong!

[The Voice]

Yeah I know your telling me, and she commutes......

[Benjb]

Uhhhhm **** this ****, 3.09 in OHIO! no. not gonna fly. Two weeks ago it was 2.00

I will be riding my motorcycle rain or shine now.

[Benjb]

Maybe it's time we build a new Oil Refinary... Oh wait... we arn't alowed too.

[The Voice]

I think we should make indivudual states buy oil, but then again me living in cali, that's probably a dumbass idea......but it is an idea!

[Ace]

lol yeah... in spokane its like an average of $2.80

[kelly]

You keep tabs on that stuff at your age?

[cuethebirds]

well i drive so yea i worry about gas prices

[Ace]

lol no just sayin how much it is in spokane... (kelly) ill be drivin soon with a permit..haha

[gerard]

Yeah I think reason for gas prices is actually more then the fact that oil prices are high. It is because we cannot build any places to refine the oil because every time we try to, there are these damn protesters. Now, the first amendment and all that ppl have a right. But, sometimes you just have to let things go!!!!!!!!!!! anyway, my truck gets like 12mpg fortunately its only 2 miles each way I have to drive to catch the bus for work.

[pop]

i think i just heard that it is $5 in atlanta on the news. thats a lot of money! saudi arabia is raping us and we are taking it like a jailhouse cheerleader. damn OPEC!!! bush should be happy though, his pocketbook is getting rather hefty!

[MasterMan]

I'm with you, except i mostly have to take the bus. Some of the busses are kinda skeezy, but I get to ride free with my school ID! Yay. When I get a car, I think I'll get a prius tho, so I don't have to worry so much about gas $. Plus, I'm a tree hugger.

My dad and I test drove one and it was really nice. it was the 05 model but we also drove a TL and that is alot nicer and its a hybrid too. We clocked it at 40 miles per gallon in the city but when you use ac it drops to like 25.

If you think gas prices are high now wait till Katrina's attack on the oil rigs takes effects. I watched a movie in science last year and it was about the same thing that katrina did. It was pretty wierd becuase it was talking about what would happen if a cat. 5 hurricane came in and one did this year.

[Justleftlife]

hell i would be happy if some on was makeing my pockets hefty tooo but they arent so i am sad!

[bombshellcutie]

F'in gas!!! ugh i hate it! i drive so much because my town sucks ass and i like to play in philly alot..now i'm restricted cause i dont want to pay $3.00 for gas! what the hell! wasnt this war over oil anyway!? why aren't we getting any! roar!

[MasterMan]

F'in gas!!! ugh i hate it! i drive so much because my town sucks ass and i like to play in philly alot..now i'm restricted cause i dont want to pay $3.00 for gas! what the hell! wasnt this war over oil anyway!? why aren't we getting any! roar!

Becuase we pissed off all the middle east and especially the saudi's so now they don't want to lower prices to the u.s. Also our ******* president doesn't want to do anything to lower gas prices when he is making a **** load off these prices.
The gas prices in europe have been 3 bux for like 10 years now and are probally higher now.

[NEFFsteeze]

The gas prices in europe have been 3 bux for like 10 years now and are probally higher now.

Yeah like last year when i went to Italy to visit some of my relatives their gas was like $2.50 a quart not even a gallon. Thats why in Europe most of them drive very small compact cars.

[SnoChica]

I'm very torn in this subject. I write letters to my senators to keep the Arctic Refuge from being opened for Oil Drilling. Yet I know that if we can supply our own oil, and not depend on the Middle East, things will be less expensive. Then there's the other/better alternative. Develop an f'in car that runs on something other than gasoline. Regardless of where we get oil, it's a natural resource that will some day be depleted and completely unavailable. So why don't we have an alternative fule option? Hmmm, I wonder. Is it because it won't benefit any rich bastards? I bet it is. Just pisses me off. Sorry.

We live in a world where the people are smarter than ever. We can put people on the moon. But we can't power a car w/o gasoline. F THAT!

[Thursday]

its not just gas, our whole economy and such runs on oil or products made from oil, theres no way around it.

[booboo]

I love the way you Americans are talking about your big gass guzzling 10 mpg American made trucks then complain about gas prices.

The war was about WMD's remember. You kow, all those WMD's that they found. Those ones, remember.

It's not your oil. Just because you illegally invade a country on false pretences does not give you the right to steal it's sole income.

[Thursday]

I love the way you Americans are talking about your big gass guzzling 10 mpg American made trucks then complain about gas prices.

The war was about WMD's remember. You kow, all those WMD's that they found. Those ones, remember.

It's not your oil. Just because you illegally invade a country on false pretences does not give you the right to steal it's sole income.
you sir can take that comment and shove it

[xxxflumpedxxx]

GAS IS ****ING 2.85 YESTERDAY

AND 3.30 TODAY

mil-town puplic transportation is only busses and it's UBER unsafe
gah.
good times

[SnoChica]

I love the way you Americans are talking about your big gass guzzling 10 mpg American made trucks then complain about gas prices.

The war was about WMD's remember. You kow, all those WMD's that they found. Those ones, remember.

It's not your oil. Just because you illegally invade a country on false pretences does not give you the right to steal it's sole income.
I don't take offense to much. But that I take offense to. I drive an economical car. Not every American is an *******. And, for you to use the phrase "YOU AMERICANS" makes me sad. Please don't lump all the people in here in with those who drive gas guzzlers. I take it personally.

In addition, I did not vote for Bush. I did not vote for war. I did not ask my president to get involved in the Middle Eastern conflict (that we more or less created in the first place).

[NEFFsteeze]

I love the way you Americans are talking about your big gass guzzling 10 mpg American made trucks then complain about gas prices.

The war was about WMD's remember. You kow, all those WMD's that they found. Those ones, remember.

It's not your oil. Just because you illegally invade a country on false pretences does not give you the right to steal it's sole income.


I dont' give a **** of what nationality you are. Yes we did invade a country but not illegally. We went through the UN and some other countries came with us inculding great britain. The reasons we invaded that were reported on the news and stuff might have been false but either way sadam huissein is out of power; a person who killed over 2000 of his own people is out of power for good. And there is one more thing, In an Iraqi military base outside Bahgdad when troops invaded it they found the plans for nuclear warheads. So don't tell me all this is false you ****in bastard.

[Thursday]

I dont' give a **** of what nationality you are. Yes we did invade a country but not illegally. We went through the UN and some other countries came with us inculding great britain. The reasons we invaded that were reported on the news and stuff might have been false but either way sadam huissein is out of power; a person who killed over 2000 of his own people is out of power for good. And there is one more thing, In an Iraqi military base outside Bahgdad when troops invaded it they found the plans for nuclear warheads. So don't tell me all this is false you ****in bastard.
exactly I totally agree dude.

[NEFFsteeze]

Like i know all of this stuff for a fact because my dad is a 2-star general in the US Army. He served in Iraq last summer and fall. My dad is currently at Fort Dicks in New Jersey with the Army.

[SnoChica]

I think that's Dix... not Dicks hehe ;)

[NEFFsteeze]

I wasn't really sure so i went with the grammer propper way to spell it so i don't start a big argument

[MasterMan]

I love the way you Americans are talking about your big gass guzzling 10 mpg American made trucks then complain about gas prices.

The war was about WMD's remember. You kow, all those WMD's that they found. Those ones, remember.

It's not your oil. Just because you illegally invade a country on false pretences does not give you the right to steal it's sole income.


Wow, you are a total idiot. We have hybrid cars that get up to 50 mpg.

[SnoChica]

Wow, you are a total idiot. We have hybrid cars that get up to 50 mpg.
Yet those hybrids still depend on gasoline. There has to be some smart-ass person that can figure something out.

[NEFFsteeze]

Yet those hybrids still depend on gasoline. There has to be some smart-ass person that can figure something out.


There called hydrogen cars and there only product of waste in water. Hydrogen can be reproduced and everything. Right now there being used in DC. The only problem is mass producing them because there aren't any hydrogen fill up stations yet.

[MasterMan]

Yeah, I read in a magazine that they created a hydrogen car but it was really expensive or something like that.

[NEFFsteeze]

yeah they have to figure out a way to make it affordable for the commen person.

[thedude]

i filled up my jeep today at 2.99 per gallon, and wiht a 17 gallon tank, it costs $50.83 to fill up. and jsut after i got gas this morning, it went up to $3.19 per gallon! now lets look at the math on this one. $3.19X17=$54.23. and i make about $200 per paycheck, so in about 2 weeks driving from class and work i spend $100. that leaves me 100 to drop into the bank account. after awhile i am nto goign to be able to aford ****. i'm now thinkign of trading in the jeep for a older 4-cyl type of car, jsut so i can actualy gain what very little money i earn from working. it sounds liek i am going to do teh knuckle dragger thing again this year and mooch lift tickets off of people leaving the hill and doing the lighter fluid, hair dryer, and crazy glue thing again. and nwo instead of only saving for one month to go on my school's ski/board trip to one of the few good resorts in michigan, it's goin to make me save until the actual trip!

everyoen do the national "do nto buy gas" thing tomorrow, Sept. 1. basically, people across the nation are nto going to be buyig gas for anything, so when the greedy ****ers see that they are losing a ton of money that day, it will hopefully make a statement to them and force them to lower the gas prices back down. the onyl loop hoel i see in this is if to make up for lost income, the gas companies will raise ti higher to help gain back what they lost that day, so basically it woudl have been for a lost purpose. i'm crossing my fingers and hoep everything goes as planned. i'm a broke ass college student, and paying this much for gas is literally killing me.

[snowboardnguy90]

hydrogen cars are a good idea, but i wouldn't want one.

Hydrogen is one of the most reactive elements out there, i mean, a slight electrical current in the tank and you can create a HUGE ass explosion (as in, depending how much there is, like a 15-20 ft radius explosion i'm guessing by the amount a normal car tank holds).

[cuethebirds]

i open up other parked cars and pump their gas into mine

[snowboardnguy90]

i open up other parked cars and pump their gas into mine
HAHAHHAA.

wait, but do u even drive??

[cuethebirds]

yea im legal to drive others in 2 months
even though ive been illegally driving kids for 4 months

[snowboardnguy90]

god damn...
i get my permit in a year... damn New jersians getting in so many car crashes raising the age for licenses... GRR

[thedude]

now i jsut saw the whoel alternate power source systems on cars. i remember during my short time spent at Ferris State in the Auto program, we talekd a lot about it as an open discussion in many classes. Ford has their Escape Hybride, that runs on a 300V battery pack. the basics behind how it works is gas is used lightly during city driving, and the battery partially runs the whole system. but once you are on the freeway, the only time the engine is running is when you speed up. the rest of the tim the engin is, get this, shut off compleatly. the 300Volts actually runs all the components needed to run the car, to keep thsi system full, they use a tweaked version of the charging cicuit that is used on the brakes. when you brake, your breaks becomepart of a recharging circuit, that puts more power into your battery. so if we thinkof it this way, if we can combine the electrical usage of the 300V battery and the economics of Hydrogen, we will have trucks that could get very well into the 100's of MPG.

but this is the scary thing about the 300V battery pack. my brales instructor was going over it and said he is waiting for the first death do to electrocutin of a mechanic waitig ot happen on one of those things. because the battery pack is located just undernieht the trunk/cargo area of the SUV, a popular place for kids and adults aliek toput their subwoofes and boxes into, he is waiting for that one poor college/high school kid to be workign on them and put a power drill right into the battery and shoot himself to the other side of the garage. as soon as you become part of that circuit, you are as good as dead.

[snowboardnguy90]

owwie... they'll pbbly make it much harder to get to the battery though. That, and the kid working on his car should know where the 300V battery is anyway.

[reefer]

wow u guys got it luky
most prices round here in ny are around 3.50 a gal, i paid 378 the other day

[booboo]

I dont' give a **** of what nationality you are. Yes we did invade a country but not illegally. We went through the UN and some other countries came with us inculding great britain. The reasons we invaded that were reported on the news and stuff might have been false but either way sadam huissein is out of power; a person who killed over 2000 of his own people is out of power for good. And there is one more thing, In an Iraqi military base outside Bahgdad when troops invaded it they found the plans for nuclear warheads. So don't tell me all this is false you ****in bastard.

All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.

The US-led invasion of Iraq was an illegal act that contravened the UN charter. The decision to take action in Iraq should have been made by the Security Council, not unilaterally.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3661134.stm

the overwhelming jurisprudential consensus is that the Anglo-American invasion, conquest, and occupation of Iraq constitute three phases of one illegal war of aggression.
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article6917.htm

Care to point to the UN Security Council resolution allowing such a war to take place junior. Heres a thought, you did not go through the UN because France would have vetoed the resolution. You had assistance from The Poms and others but that is not the UN. New Zealand has been involved in nearly every major UN peace keeping operation for the last 50 years and was not involved in this one because IT DID NOT HAVE UN BACKING! Only after it happened did the UN step in.
Theres plenty more info at http://www.robincmiller.com/ir-legal.htm but I am sure a 16yo kids opinion outweighs the Secretary General of the UN and that of International Law experts. Well done.

You are right about one thing though, I am a ****ing bastard.

Apologies to Snochica and all those who own hybrid cars or otherwise economical cars. I thought the phrasing of my statement made it obvious I was alluding to those who own the big gas guzzling cars I was refering to but, upon rereading it I realise my mistake. So again, apologies. I stand by my other statements however I realise it was not the preferable course of action by many Americans.

Personally, I hope oil prices continue to climb until they reach the stars. Maybe then people will start thinking of other forms of transportation.

[gerard]

Check out this link I found. Hydrogen cars coming to Cali, well some are already there.

http://www.hydrogenhighway.ca.gov/

[mya2489]

In upstate Ny yesterday it was $2.65 for regular and this morning when I was going to school it was up to $3.09 for regular. It is $3.45 for super!!! That is crazy they need to do something how about raising the cost of living for everyone... It's all a bunch of bull****

[Rubiks]

Hey I just got back into the country and was told gas was 3.20... I was like WTF. Then I realized that it is still so far below what European market has been paying...

[NEFFsteeze]

In upstate Ny yesterday it was $2.65 for regular and this morning when I was going to school it was up to $3.09 for regular. It is $3.45 for super!!! That is crazy they need to do something how about raising the cost of living for everyone... It's all a bunch of bull****


Yeah i live in upstate. 2 days ago it was 2.52 where i live. Yesterday it was 2.84 and now today its 3.04. Its crazy.

[thedude]

owwie... they'll pbbly make it much harder to get to the battery though. That, and the kid working on his car should know where the 300V battery is anyway.

the production design was just sheet metal, the carpet, and a few plastic storage clips. way to leave it to Ford to make things supper cheap.

[gerard]

Ok, so on the bus ride home, I noticed gas is 3.09 even saw one that was 3.45 for regular. Are you kidding me with this?

[kelly]

Whew, looks like I picked a good time to be poor and have no car! :)

[thedude]

Whew, looks like I picked a good time to be poor and have no car! :)

i envy you. i need a job that i can get to where i can ride my bike to get there.

[kelly]

Yeah, I can ride my bike or take the bus to school. I do have to work to mooch rides to the slopes tho.

[thedude]

you could get a super cheap car on e-bay, liek a Geo or something, and use that to get to the hill, and dont' bother putting insurance on it. then use the bus and your biek for everything else.

[kelly]

Uhhh... isn't it illegal to drive without insurance? Plus, I don't have the $ for a super cheap car, or the parking space it would require. If I really can't get a ride, I just rent a car for $20. Oh yeah, and I wouldn't trust a Geo to make it up I-70...

[thedude]

lol, good point. Geo's are like driving a glorified golf cart around.

i know some people who don't ahve their cars insured. it is shady, no doyubt about that, but there are ways to get around it. if you live in an up-tight community with anal cops aroudn,t hen it isn't a good idea

[kelly]

You have to have proof of insurance to register your car here, I don't know how you'd get around that... they check it every year, I used to have out of state car insurance, so I wasn't on their automatic list & I had to have my insurance company fax something to the DMV every year to get new stickers.

[thedude]

You have to have proof of insurance to register your car here, I don't know how you'd get around that... they check it every year, I used to have out of state car insurance, so I wasn't on their automatic list & I had to have my insurance company fax something to the DMV every year to get new stickers.

my friedn took hsi dads old license plate and sacnned stickers and photo shopped them. nobody saidntohign to him because ti looked so legit. how he never got questioned about it, idon't know

[kelly]

Wow, he must have had to never speed or anything. Or at least never get pulled over.

[snowboardnguy90]

haha i'm lucky i don't have to drive and pay for high gas prices =P.

but then again, i wanna drive so badly =(.

[SnoChick]

Gas is $3.05 for regular in Sacramento (nor cal) today... yikes! And if I try to take the public transit from my house to anywhere, I'll never get there (let see, I think there's 1 bus that runs in my area once every 2 hours or something like that... and I'd probably miss the connection for the next bus and will have to wait another hour... ok, you get my point...)

[thedude]

http://www.gvny.com/columns/nichols/img/asshole1.jpg

i just foudn thsi and somehwo i foudn it fitting. wounder why...

[Lexi]

yeah...gas is lame, i live in Albuquerque, NM. well on monday i filled up and it was 2.65. i went to fill up my boss's car today and it was 2.99 average, i passed a few places that were 3.09! it jumped like crazy this week.

[snowboardnguy90]

screw driving. get a chinese taxi (=

[The Voice]

Gas is going out of control, soon it will only be politican's and millionaire's driving cars, the rest of us will be walking!!

[Rubiks]

screw driving. get a chinese taxi (=
Hells yeah. Time to sell my toyota tacoma and buy a cyclocross bike.

[Rubiks]

http://www.gvny.com/columns/nichols/img/asshole1.jpg

i just foudn thsi and somehwo i foudn it fitting. wounder why...
That about sums it up.

[thedude]

yeah, and then i found this one too, i dunno, some of you might have seen this already:
http://www.walrus.com/%7Eddprod/Images/*******-bush.jpg

[Rubiks]

yeah, and then i found this one too, i dunno, some of you might have seen this already:
http://www.walrus.com/%7Eddprod/Images/*******-bush.jpg
Thats great... is funny cause it's true.,

[thedude]

i know, it's so sad becasue it is so true.

[Forum_4ever]

3.50 a gallon here its nucking futs

[thedude]

damn straight forum, it's nucking futs

[thedude]

i jsut typed in nucking futs without seeign that oyu actually did type nuckign futs. maybe i am loosignmy mind, i dunno

[Forum_4ever]

lol great thats probably the funniest part of that movie

[CustomRider13]

I read this article about a meeting the US Gov. had with a big US oil company that supplies 1/3 of the oil used in the US and in the meeting, the gov. asked the oil company if they could give back to the country because they made a tremendous amount of profits during the oil price rise and the company refused. They refused on the basis that, they don't always make that much profit and it's always fluctuating, so they needed to secure their company with the profit they made during the price rise. I think it was like 600 billion in less then a year or something. I thought it was bogus when I read how much they made and thought they needed. Anyways, I'll look for that article and try to post it on here.

[locciola]

:mmph: i hate gas prices...

and gas for heating my house - $424.00 this month.. :faint2:

[CustomRider13]

wow, that's alot. Damn Bush!! I know he's got something to do with this.

[kelly]

he's pocketing that cash.

[snowboardnguy90]

I read this article about a meeting the US Gov. had with a big US oil company that supplies 1/3 of the oil used in the US and in the meeting, the gov. asked the oil company if they could give back to the country because they made a tremendous amount of profits during the oil price rise and the company refused. They refused on the basis that, they don't always make that much profit and it's always fluctuating, so they needed to secure their company with the profit they made during the price rise. I think it was like 600 billion in less then a year or something. I thought it was bogus when I read how much they made and thought they needed. Anyways, I'll look for that article and try to post it on here.




"HEY! i need my 14 billion dollar estate with a 50 foot solid gold statue of me in my entrance hall!!"

[Laundrew]

it was like 209 billion in one quarter for exxon/mobile thats crazy. I think that topped the previous years gross.

[CustomRider13]

"HEY! i need my 14 billion dollar estate with a 50 foot solid gold statue of me in my entrance hall!!"
more like a million acre ranch so that he can act like a rancher.

[snowboardnguy90]

more like a million acre ranch so that he can act like a rancher.

haha yea i love the poser cowboys. ruffin it in style.

[CustomRider13]

haha yea i love the poser cowboys. ruffin it in style.
lol, like Ralph Lauren. I was watching, "lifestyle of the rich and famous" or something on tv and it was about celebrity's vacation houses. They had George Bush and Ralph Lauren's ranch. Man, those guys are posers. lol. They didn't even grow up in ranches, they're just pretending to be ranchers.

[snowboardnguy90]

lol, like Ralph Lauren. I was watching, "lifestyle of the rich and famous" or something on tv and it was about celebrity's vacation houses. They had George Bush and Ralph Lauren's ranch. Man, those guys are posers. lol. They didn't even grow up in ranches, they're just pretending to be ranchers.

who'd wanna be a rancher anyway?

[Type_0]

all i have to say is its better than europe and austrailia, where some places gas prices are anwhere between $4-$6 for regular.:scared:

[CustomRider13]

all i have to say is its better than europe and austrailia, where some places gas prices are anwhere between $4-$6 for regular.:scared:
yeah, but most of it is taxes that get circulated back into the country.

[thedude]

I read this article about a meeting the US Gov. had with a big US oil company that supplies 1/3 of the oil used in the US and in the meeting, the gov. asked the oil company if they could give back to the country because they made a tremendous amount of profits during the oil price rise and the company refused. They refused on the basis that, they don't always make that much profit and it's always fluctuating, so they needed to secure their company with the profit they made during the price rise. I think it was like 600 billion in less then a year or something. I thought it was bogus when I read how much they made and thought they needed. Anyways, I'll look for that article and try to post it on here.

i think nwo is an appropriate tiem to say this...
viva la revolution

[Snow Wolf]

i think nwo is an appropriate tiem to say this...
viva la revolution

Where do I sign up? I`m ready!!!

[IRideASnowboard154]

DRILL IN ALASKA!

(2.50$/g here)

[bushin]

I'm very torn in this subject. I write letters to my senators to keep the Arctic Refuge from being opened for Oil Drilling. Yet I know that if we can supply our own oil, and not depend on the Middle East, things will be less expensive. Then there's the other/better alternative. Develop an f'in car that runs on something other than gasoline. Regardless of where we get oil, it's a natural resource that will some day be depleted and completely unavailable. So why don't we have an alternative fule option? Hmmm, I wonder. Is it because it won't benefit any rich bastards? I bet it is. Just pisses me off. Sorry.

We live in a world where the people are smarter than ever. We can put people on the moon. But we can't power a car w/o gasoline. F THAT!
Totally agree, I have 100% faith that people have actually developed car alternatives that use different fuels, but the rich oil and auto companies buy the patents and just let um sit because it would destory our dependence on big oil and auto. Fcukin bsatards!!

[snowboardnguy90]

Totally agree, I have 100% faith that people have actually developed car alternatives that use different fuels, but the rich oil and auto companies buy the patents and just let um sit because it would destory our dependence on big oil and auto. Fcukin bsatards!!

uhh.. they now have hybrids, electric, hydrogen, and (i saw this once, it's true) solar powered cars.

[Psiu]

uhh.. they now have hybrids, electric, hydrogen, and (i saw this once, it's true) solar powered cars.

Don't forget about the bio-fuel vehicles as well.
http://www.greasecar.com/

[snowboardnguy90]

Don't forget about the bio-fuel vehicles as well.
http://www.greasecar.com/

haha oh yea how could i forget those.
some guy also made a car running on stuff like oil (the one used to make french fries).

[FJB_Timeless]

Do they have SUV's that run on alternative fuels? Otherwise, how would we get to the mountains???

I agree... there needs to be a massive change... politics get in the way ALL THE TIME! It's unfortunate... cuz we are going to deplete this entire planet of its natural resources...

[DPancoast]

Gas prices were good for me on the East Coast...now they're back to $2.47

Yeah that's not bad compared to the west coast or where it's $3 a gallon. But for my area and all my other expenses....it sucks.

[jeffro1080]

its like 2.22 here. Does anyone else feel like the winters are getting warmer and warmer each year?? I can't help but think that global warming might actually be effecting stuff

[snowboardnguy90]

its like 2.22 here. Does anyone else feel like the winters are getting warmer and warmer each year?? I can't help but think that global warming might actually be effecting stuff

lol that was completely random.

but, i feel that only this winter has been really warm.

last year we had a lot of snow days, and a lot of snow.

and you probably won't feel the effects of global warming in our lifetime.

[CustomRider13]

$2.43 for 87 unleaded is the cheapest I've seen here in southern california and I think it's gonna keep going up.

[Fae]

Wow, it's really going to suck when I have to worry about this stuff again.

[CustomRider13]

haha, I wish I didn't have to worry about it. Too bad living in So Cal requires you have a car and that you have to drive alot. I'd be happy to live somewhere I can take a bus or subway.

[Fae]

I'm a big supporter of public transportation for my daily commute and for visiting other cities. I just wish I had my own car so I could get to the mountains.

[DPancoast]

83 Octane $2.75 goes up by 10 cents for each "octane level"

Gas is said to be $3.10 by summer

[Type_0]

a large amount of chevy and gmc cars and trucks can now be run on either regular gas or ethinol 85

one more small step torwards gas indapendance.

[Laundrew]

for some strange reason 93 octane was cheaper than the 91 which is the min that i can use. I just filled up with that. granted i was still paying 3.20 per gallon

[Type_0]

why cant you use any lower? car recomendation?

[DPancoast]

"gas will be up .25 cents by summer"

http://money.cnn.com/2005/09/01/Autos/tipsandadvice/gas_saving_test/index.htm

better read these tips. Or get a bike.

[DPancoast]

why cant you use any lower? car recomendation?

He either has a car that is highly modified which it runs better on higher octane, OR he's stuck on rumors that higher octane is better for any car. Which yes it is true, but depending on where you read it from, you're better off saving your money.

[drwngrl]

Anchorage is about 2.29-2.55... ouch! Thanks to me Jetta though.. I get around pretty cheap still.

[CustomRider13]

for some strange reason 93 octane was cheaper than the 91 which is the min that i can use. I just filled up with that. granted i was still paying 3.20 per gallon
let me guess, turbo vehicle?

[drwngrl]

I have a VR6, which guzzles a lot compared to the other models, but I still only gas up about once every coupla weeks and I drive probable 20+ city miles a day

[CustomRider13]

"gas will be up .25 cents by summer"

http://money.cnn.com/2005/09/01/Autos/tipsandadvice/gas_saving_test/index.htm

better read these tips. Or get a bike.
A bike it is!

[Laundrew]

let me guess, turbo vehicle?

ding ding ding ding!

[kelly]

91 octane is the minimum you can use? They don't even sell that here. Must be pricey.

[drwngrl]

no, not really. I checked into it, 87 is fine for my engine. Thank god!

[kelly]

Yeah, I just use 85, cuz it's cheap and it's not my car anyway ;)

[Type_0]

He either has a car that is highly modified which it runs better on higher octane, OR he's stuck on rumors that higher octane is better for any car. Which yes it is true, but depending on where you read it from, you're better off saving your money.

thats what i figured, ie turbo as mentioned above.

[thedude]

83 Octane $2.75 goes up by 10 cents for each "octane level"

Gas is said to be $3.10 by summer

i juhthsi mornign on the radio. good thing i plan only on using the car to go to work and some summer courses i am taking, everywhere esle, it's the bike and the skateboard

[CustomRider13]

Damn turbo cars are picky with their fuel. 91 octane is $2.99 9/10 at the cheapest gas station in my area. :)

[drwngrl]

Well the snow is thawing in Anchorage and I will switch to the gary fischer... But untill then I have to commute to school and work... so i pay

[DPancoast]

91 Octane (cheapest) in my area is 2.79 for 93 its 2.89

It really sucks. Im glad I don't have a turbo or performance machine.

[drwngrl]

It still only costs me like $15 a week... Unlike most Alaskans who spend $50+ a week on gas cause they have SUV's... I got rid of my Jeep, I miss it for riding... But as far as my Jetta, it rocks on fuel consumption for as much city driving as I am doing... Plus I put a lil rack on top and it gets me to Alyeska (where i ride)!

[SimonInAustralia]

I am gonna get this forum started. I was on my way home today and noticed prices of $2.85 for gas. Now remember I am in nj where gas is probably one of the cheapest. WTF is going on. Didn't we take over a country that has oil? Why not just take some. Or make us some damn hydrogen cars already. Hell, I'll even take one that runs on natural gas!Your government took over another country so that the people running your government can make more money selling it, not so that you could have cheaper gas to buy.

[User Name]

I agree with Steve Forbes on the price of oil.

http://www.abc.net.au/ra/asiapac/programs/s1449559.htm

[snowboardnguy90]

i don't own a car and i can't drive anyway.

boo-ya.

[SimonInAustralia]

i don't own a car and i can't drive anyway.

boo-ya.Everything you buy has to be transported to the store, everytime you get driven somewhere it uses gas...if gas costs more, you pay more, even if you don't have a car.

[kelly]

not to mention the costs of powering chairlifts and snowcats and everything else used in resort operations...

[snowboardnguy90]

Everything you buy has to be transported to the store, everytime you get driven somewhere it uses gas...if gas costs more, you pay more, even if you don't have a car.

at least i don't have to pay the 30-something dollars every week to fill up a tank =).

[Snow Wolf]

Everything you buy has to be transported to the store, everytime you get driven somewhere it uses gas...if gas costs more, you pay more, even if you don't have a car.

Right on...I drive a semi truck and if you own it, wear it or eat it, at one point it was on a truck and diesel fuel is getting expensive!

[Laundrew]

i've been paying 2.80-3.00 for a while. 93 octane makes a huge difference in milage though

[CustomRider13]

i've been paying 2.80-3.00 for a while. 93 octane makes a huge difference in milage though
better mileage? If so, how much better?

[CustomRider13]

Your government took over another country so that the people running your government can make more money selling it, not so that you could have cheaper gas to buy.
you can also thank OPEC.

[CustomRider13]

at least i don't have to pay the 30-something dollars every week to fill up a tank =).
atleast we get to drive our cars! : )

[thedude]

at least i don't have to pay the 30-something dollars every week to fill up a tank =).
not forgettign that some of us have jobs we need to get to and need our cars or trucks to get to so we can pay our bills, save up money for retirement, vacations, new snowboard gear, and then put soem into the gas that gets us back and forth to our jobs

[snowrocker_21]

there gay..thats all

[SnoChica]

$2.91 here.... :(

[snowboarding_bear]

the gas i put in my dads motorcycle when i take it out now is going for ****in 3.16$ a gallon...i was like holy shyt...but yeah...soon im gettin my car...n thatll b a f-150 at least...so im ****ed when i need gas!!!

[phillyboy]

Everything you buy has to be transported to the store, everytime you get driven somewhere it uses gas...if gas costs more, you pay more, even if you don't have a car.
Not to mention the oil it took to process, mass produce, genetically engineer and fertizlize the food we eat.

[Snow Wolf]

The market people are already saying to expect $3.50 to $3.75 a gallon through the summer and thats without....hurricanes, refinery fires, overseas supply disruptions or America attacking Iran....if any of those things happen, we can easily see $5.00 a gallon gas since supply is just barely keeping up with demand right now.

[DPancoast]

If gas goes to $5 a gallon, there is going to be a lot of mad people and chaos. Lowest around me right now is $2.79 but that's if I drive to get gas. Closest to my house is $2.99

[phillyboy]

I kind of think that high gas prices are great. It forces us to drive/consume less which is what is going to help keep the NON-renewable resource of oil around longer. If gas prices stayed low we would consume it at the same rate we have been and it would be gone in a few decades at most.
You can't create more of a non-renewable resource which means that you can't increase supply. So demand needs to slacken. When that happens, prices go down again which causes demand to rise again.

[kelly]

But wait.. how would that help with the whole world economic markets collapsing and you moving into a cabin in the woods? ;)

[Laundrew]

I kind of think that high gas prices are great. It forces us to drive/consume less which is what is going to help keep the NON-renewable resource of oil around longer. If gas prices stayed low we would consume it at the same rate we have been and it would be gone in a few decades at most.
You can't create more of a non-renewable resource which means that you can't increase supply. So demand needs to slacken. When that happens, prices go down again which causes demand to rise again.

I have to disagree with you, you have to remember not every cities economics and transportation systems are the same. No one should make a sweeping statement like that. Poorly Planned Cities are just f*cked.

[thedude]

dunno if you guys have herad abot ths oen yet, but don't buy any gas form Exxon or Mobil. they currently are the two biggest oil companies in the market right now, and are the ones havign the most control over the oil idustry. there is some thing going around that says that fi we don't buy formt hem, then they will be foreced to change theior prices, hopefully lower, so that the opther oil companies will follow suit and lower their prices as well. i dunno hwo well this wil work, also conciderign thati haven't sene an exxon or mobil station within 20 miles form me.

[phillyboy]

I have to disagree with you, you have to remember not every cities economics and transportation systems are the same. No one should make a sweeping statement like that. Poorly Planned Cities are just f*cked.
I'm not sure I follow how you're disagreeing with me. I agree that poorly planned cities are ****ed. And my sweeping statement is just a simple economic truth.

[Laundrew]

i'm just going to say that is bullsh!t. Please read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPEC

this post for for thedude

[thedude]

Poorly Planned Cities are just f*cked.
yeah, liek detroit. our city is ****ed because ti is all automotive based, and the local gov is corrupt as ****. that's number two on the assasination list, number on being Bush, number two being Kwame Kilpatric (detroits corrupt mayor). the asshoel spent the cities tax dollars on a Escalade for hsi sister in-law. and has had taxes with-held so he could go on cruises and vacations. the guy's a bastard

[kelly]

Even in poorly planned cities, rising gas prices can make living in the urban center more attractive and help limit urban sprawl problems. Once commuting becomes cost prohibitive, people will be forced to live closer to their places of work - living 20 miles out of the city would be a luxury that few could afford.

[phillyboy]

dunno if you guys have herad abot ths oen yet, but don't buy any gas form Exxon or Mobil. they currently are the two biggest oil companies in the market right now, and are the ones havign the most control over the oil idustry. there is some thing going around that says that fi we don't buy formt hem, then they will be foreced to change theior prices, hopefully lower, so that the opther oil companies will follow suit and lower their prices as well. i dunno hwo well this wil work, also conciderign thati haven't sene an exxon or mobil station within 20 miles form me.
That's only a short-term solution to the price problem. It actually hurts, not helps to overall energy crisis inevitably coming about. What should be happening is a movement away from such oil dependence.

[Fae]

Even in poorly planned cities, rising gas prices can make living in the urban center more attractive and help limit urban sprawl problems. Once commuting becomes cost prohibitive, people will be forced to live closer to their places of work - living 20 miles out of the city would be a luxury that few could afford.

Because what the cities need are more peoeple. Yay for housing crises. Maybe I can hope to pay over 2 grand for a tiny studio by the time this is all over.

[phillyboy]

Even in poorly planned cities, rising gas prices can make living in the urban center more attractive and help limit urban sprawl problems. Once commuting becomes cost prohibitive, people will be forced to live closer to their places of work - living 20 miles out of the city would be a luxury that few could afford.
But with the rate of gas prices rising so quickly the influx of people flocking to urban centers could be too great, and the supply just wouldn't be there for quite some time, keeping the middle/low income people who are REALLY affected by high gas prices out. However, walkable, sustainable communities are a good answer, they just need to get cracking and make things affordable to the entire economic spectrum of people, rather than just keep building luxury condos affordable to only the upper class like they keep doing here.

[thedude]

that is ture kelly, but also you have to take in concideration of what type of people are living in the city currently. liek detroit is so bad right now, that despite the fact that they are tryign to rebuidl the city and bring more peole back, nobody wanst to go back because:
1. law enforcment has been cut in half in a city with a homicide rate in the top 5 in the country, and top 10 arodun the world
2. the locla government is biased and does thigns to suit them
3. nobody living outside the city wats to go back, because so much development outside the city is poping up, jobs aremovign out towards the people, so why would anybody want to move back?
4. the inner city is so delapidated, that the cost fo rebuilding the city wil ultimatly bankrupt the city in th end, ans ince the tax moeny si bing spent poorly, thsiis most likely goign to happen.

thsi isn't the case in many cities, some of these ar probabilities. i'm not sure on what other cities areeliekr ight now, but i don't tink that the greater portiono f thema re in thsi bad of state

[phillyboy]

Everytime I read the dude's posts I feel like I'm taking that test that reverses letters withing words to show how you can still read and comprehend it.

[Laundrew]

But with the rate of gas prices rising so quickly the influx of people flocking to urban centers could be too great, and the supply just wouldn't be there for quite some time, keeping the middle/low income people who are REALLY affected by high gas prices out. However, walkable, sustainable communities are a good answer, they just need to get cracking and make things affordable to the entire economic spectrum of people, rather than just keep building luxury condos affordable to only the upper class like they keep doing here.

I was waiting for Fae to add to this discussion.

Ok we won't have an oil problem but we will have problems with real estate and housing/rental prices skyrocketing. That is why people move away from the cities because it's cheaper, the cost of commuting is more economical. You aren't solving a problem you are creating like 10 new ones.

[thedude]

What should be happening is a movement away from such oil dependence.

(thanky ou jesus) and we should. hybride vehicles in one way we are lopokignto solve it, but at the same ytime, we shodl look itno making lab created oil. theyw ill be a lot cleaner, and factorign out the cost for purification, the price will most liekly stay within limits, and probably will onyl change with inflation of the domestic dollar. it's another possibility

[thedude]

Everytime I read the dude's posts I feel like I'm taking that test that reverses letters withing words to show how you can still read and comprehend it.

i jsut liek bustin' your balls, lol, jk

[Laundrew]

and it's the middle to low income people that get double f*cked by rising gas prices. they can't afford the gass to get to work and they can't afford to move closer to work. I don't see how this is helping james.

[Fae]

I was waiting for Fae to add to this discussion.

Ok we won't have an oil problem but we will have problems with real estate and housing/rental prices skyrocketing. That is why people move away from the cities because it's cheaper, the cost of commuting is more economical. You aren't solving a problem you are creating like 10 new ones.

Yeah, well I have a love/hate relationship with cities. I love public transportation (not just because I hate driving) but housing here is out of control. Next to my house, a new building of absolutely beautiful condos was just built. For the low low price of $500,000 one could be yours!

And it's not just because I live in NYC that it's this way. My rent in DC was actually a lot worse and I didn't live close to any of the metro (subway) stops there. It took a 45 minute walk to get to the closest one.

And that's my partial rant on housing problems in cities. Suddenly, it doesn't make the $76 I spend on transportation each month such a good deal.

[Laundrew]

500K for a condo is flat out insane. it's about 300K here.

I'm not sure how much it is in Phily but james as you can see not every cities economics warrant a sweeping change like you are suggesting.

What needs to be done is a gradual shift to more efficent engines. I was reading wired yesterday and there are a few companies who are working on projects like this but it's not going to happen overnight, and it isn't going to be a solution for the rampant rises in gas that we are seeing now. There needs to be some kind of practical regulation of oil prices.

[phillyboy]

and it's the middle to low income people that get double f*cked by rising gas prices. they can't afford the gass to get to work and they can't afford to move closer to work. I don't see how this is helping james.
Then what happens if somehow gas sustains itself at an affordable price? We obviously continue consuming it at the same rate. Then what happens when it supply becomes dangerously low? For every oil-producing nation, extraction starts at 0, rises to a peak and declines to 0 again. So after it hits the peak, supply is only dropping and cannot rise again. Political and economic events affect this curve though. For instance, Iraq isn't predicted to peak until 2015 because of the wars and whatnot it slows down the rate of extraction. However, this also slows down supply. So prices rise, but we'll have oil longer. So either way you put it, lower prices with a sooner end to the oil age or higher prices with a further end to the oil age, it's not sustainable. We can change our lifestyles peacefully or be dragged kicking and screaming into a post-petroleum era which could resemble the pre-industrial age or early industrial age at best.

[kelly]

500K for a condo is flat out insane. it's about 300K here.

I'm not sure how much it is in Phily but james as you can see not every cities economics warrant a sweeping change like you are suggesting.

What needs to be done is a gradual shift to more efficent engines. I was reading wired yesterday and there are a few companies who are working on projects like this but it's not going to happen overnight, and it isn't going to be a solution for the rampant rises in gas that we are seeing now. There needs to be some kind of practical regulation of oil prices.
A gradual rise in gas prices is actually more acceptable as far as gradual change goes because it forces people to slowly become less dependant on the automobile or look for alternative methods of transportation. there is no question that eventually people will have to stop relying on gasoline, it's just a question of whether it happens gradually, or there is a catostrophic shortage in the near future.

[phillyboy]

Ok we won't have an oil problem but we will have problems with real estate and housing/rental prices skyrocketing. That is why people move away from the cities because it's cheaper, the cost of commuting is more economical. You aren't solving a problem you are creating like 10 new ones.
No, we'll have an oil problem regardless of what happens. Then the suburbanites are SOL anyway.

[kelly]

that is ture kelly, but also you have to take in concideration of what type of people are living in the city currently. liek detroit is so bad right now, that despite the fact that they are tryign to rebuidl the city and bring more peole back, nobody wanst to go back because:
1. law enforcment has been cut in half in a city with a homicide rate in the top 5 in the country, and top 10 arodun the world
2. the locla government is biased and does thigns to suit them
3. nobody living outside the city wats to go back, because so much development outside the city is poping up, jobs aremovign out towards the people, so why would anybody want to move back?
4. the inner city is so delapidated, that the cost fo rebuilding the city wil ultimatly bankrupt the city in th end, ans ince the tax moeny si bing spent poorly, thsiis most likely goign to happen.

thsi isn't the case in many cities, some of these ar probabilities. i'm not sure on what other cities areeliekr ight now, but i don't tink that the greater portiono f thema re in thsi bad of state
There is plenty of precedent for the economic revival of a dilapidated area. If people are forced by economy to move back into the urban center, crime rates will drop as the urban core is populated by a more even mix of people (not just the extremely poor). Recent development in denver has repopulated downtown, which used to just be businesses and a scary, bombed out warehouse district. Now, since there are people living in this warehouse district, there are people around at all hours and the crime has dropped in this area.

[Fae]

Yeah, the neighborhood I live in was a complete ghetto less than 10 yrs ago, and now look....$500,000 condos!

(Seriously, the revival my neighborhood has gone through is amazing....it's just sad that it comes at such a high price.)

[Laundrew]

I have a lot to say and it's going to take a few posts to say it. To comment on james's post about Surburanites being SoL. You are also forgetting those in the midwest/west who produce many of the goodes we buy in the grocery stores. Are you going to tell them oh gas prices are high so who cares if your farm goes belly up because you can't produce as much as you could the previous years because you can't use fuel to dust and harvest your crops, or transport those goods to the market for sale.

Please don't forget those who don't live in or near urban centers.

[kelly]

yeah, but there's a diminishing supply of oil which will soon run out, so it seems like it would be better for the shortage to hit slowly through financial pressure, so that these farmers and the government can try and work out some other means for operating, because the farms are needed to feed people, and in order for the economy to sustain a massive oil shortage, there need to be alternatives worked out for all of these kind of situations.

[phillyboy]

I have a lot to say and it's going to take a few posts to say it. To comment on james's post about Surburanites being SoL. You are also forgetting those in the midwest/west who produce many of the goodes we buy in the grocery stores. Are you going to tell them oh gas prices are high so who cares if your farm goes belly up because you can't produce as much as you could the previous years because you can't use fuel to dust and harvest your crops, or transport those goods to the market for sale.

Please don't forget those who don't live in or near urban centers.
Because it's the whole style of living that is not sustainable. Mass producing crops to be shipped all over the country, etc. Local economy is important. For instance, Philly should be getting most of it's produce from farmland around Philly. Not from ****ing California and ****. I'll say it again, it's going to happen whether you like it or not.
But actually, let's keep consuming at the rate we're going. In fact, let's consume more. It will be more interesting when the oil age comes to an end and everyone asks "what now?" I mean if we started to change the way we live right now, that would just be boring.

[Laundrew]

Second these aren't gradual changes though. I'm having this conversation with someone else right now and this is what she said

it seems no matter what you do to try to alleviate the hike in gas prices, it ends up costing you just as much
to buy a hybrid car, you pay as much as you would for gas on a regular car because it's so expensive in the first place
if you take public transportation, you lose time that you save commuting yourself
it's a vicious cycle"

Now she brought up public transportation. The use of public transportation is not the same in every region. Not every local government places the same emphasis on city infrastructure as other. Myself if i could take the metro to work i could but it is not practical or feasible for me. I have a station 5 mins away from where i live, if i were to take the metro to work i would have to go north into the city, switch lines in the city only to go out west of the city, to take a a bus to go back south total trip 1.5 hours. Total miles 50 miles. Now if i were to take my car to work and just go nw along the beltway i am in my car 15 -30 mins dependant on traffic - only 15 miles. Why would i waste time going into the city only to come out. The infrastructure is not there to make taking public transportation feasible.

[Laundrew]

james, do you think that the farm lands of northern philly could sustain the population of philly? do you understand that the climate of pennslyvainia might not support the goods that you need to produce to sustain your population.

Change is going to happen yes but you are making these sweeping comments without actually thinking about what it means to our economies. I am not one for more consumption i'm one for looking at the effects that changes like this have on the way we sustain ourselves. No matter how much you say we need to change the truth is we depend on oil. A hike in rates are not going to bring about changes for the good. As i stated before if people decide to move in closer to urban centers they are going to get f*cked even worse than they will be if they decided to maintain their oil consumption.

city infrastructure doesn't come from the sky, someone has to pay for it. and i'm sure you can guess who is going to end up paying for it. So yeah, we get to pay more for real estate more in taxes and more for goods/textiles because we drove up the price of agricultural goods. Sounds like a great plan.

[phillyboy]

james, do you think that the farm lands of northern philly could sustain the population of philly? do you understand that the climate of pennslyvainia might not support the goods that you need to produce to sustain your population.

Change is going to happen yes but you are making these sweeping comments without actually thinking about what it means to our economies. I am not one for more consumption i'm one for looking at the effects that changes like this have on the way we sustain ourselves. No matter how much you say we need to change the truth is we depend on oil. A hike in rates are not going to bring about changes for the good. As i stated before if people decide to move in closer to urban centers they are going to get f*cked even worse than they will be if they decided to maintain their oil consumption.

city infrastructure doesn't come from the sky, someone has to pay for it. and i'm sure you can guess who is going to end up paying for it. So yeah, we get to pay more for real estate more in taxes and more for goods/textiles because we drove up the price of agricultural goods. Sounds like a great plan.
No, the farmlands of PA and NJ most likely could not sustain such a dense population, but remember, there is this issue of overpopulation. Overpopulation being caused by technologies made possible by oil.
But I will concede to you and say we must maintain our current level of oil consumption. Although I don't think that you are understanding what THAT will do to our economy in the (not so) long run. But just to prove a point, I support maintaining or increasing our current rate of consumption.

[Laundrew]

You have me confused, you said people need to move to urban centers, but urban centers are already overpopulated?

I am not saying that we must maintain our current consumption of oil, my point is before we say well we need to reduce it across the board we need to think about all of the factors which come into play. I didn't even touch on the number of jobs that will be lost by sweeping changes to the business of oil in the US, not to mention those jobs which come along with the purchase/sale/and maintainence of automobiles.

I agree with us needing to reduce our consumption but i disagree with your justification of the rise in gas prices. It completely ignored situations outside of your local economy and city infratructure. And that is my main point.

[phillyboy]

You have me confused, you said people need to move to urban centers, but urban centers are already overpopulated?

I am not saying that we must maintain our current consumption of oil, my point is before we say well we need to reduce it across the board we need to think about all of the factors which come into play. I didn't even touch on the number of jobs that will be lost by sweeping changes to the business of oil in the US, not to mention those jobs which come along with the purchase/sale/and maintainence of automobiles.

I agree with us needing to reduce our consumption but i disagree with your justification of the rise in gas prices. It completely ignored situations outside of your local economy and city infratructure. And that is my main point.
What incentive do people have to reduce their consumption of gas if the prices stay easily affordable? We know what people are motivated by and it's not long term effects.

[User Name]

Yes the cost of oil has been driven up by increased demand and geopolitical considerations but that doesn’t tell the whole story. It isn’t so much that there is a lack of oil, even though demand has reduced supply; it’s that we lack the capability to refine it. And speculators are investing in oil driving up the cost. I think Steve Forbes was right when he said oil prices are a bubble that is going to burst.

When was the last time a refinery was built in America? I think it was the 70’s and obviously our demand has increased since then. Refineries are running at capacity and any interruption at one of them prices will spike because there is no extra capacity anywhere to make up for the problems at one. Not everything is back to 100% from the hurricanes either. Last year after the hurricanes OPEC increased output and that really didn’t do much for prices because we lacked the ability to refine it into something we could use. I don’t understand why the lack of refining capacity is never talked about in this debate.

Also exploration for new oil decreased and now with the prices people are starting to explore again but it takes something like 5 years from finding a new supply to using it.

If oil prices keep going up and goes to $100 per barrel the global economy couldn’t handle it and we would be looking at a huge recession. I personally think that prices have risen enough right now to drive people to look for other options and a sudden spike from here would cripple the economy. You can’t get the entire world away from oil dependence in a few years, its going to take time and prices have finally risen enough to make people want to change. I remember gas being under a $1 a gallon and nobody even thought about change. You can’t force people to change, they will only change when there is a benefit to them and the benefits of changing are starting to outweigh the benefits of staying the same.

As I have said before the vast majority of people will change when it affects their wallets and that has finally started to happen. If companies would have started selling hybrid cars, or other types, before there was a demand they would have lost lots of money and be in a worse situation than they are now. Some might not even be around.

I want us to get away from a dependence on oil and use renewable sources but it will take time. Businesses have to get the alternatives on the market, at an affordable price, and then the public has to buy them. While gas prices are high not everyone can afford to run out and buy a new car.

On the farming note there are climates that simply cannot grow our food supply. There is a reason that the Midwest produces most of our food. The soil in the Midwest is some of the best in the world and the climate is good for growth. There is a reason why Iowa is known for corn, Kansas is known for wheat, Florida is known for oranges and Hawaii is know for sugar. Its because that is what grows well in those regions. Try growing oranges and sugar cane in New England, won’t happen.

[phillyboy]

On the farming note there are climates that simply cannot grow our food supply. There is a reason that the Midwest produces most of our food. The soil in the Midwest is some of the best in the world and the climate is good for growth. There is a reason why Iowa is known for corn, Kansas is known for wheat, Florida is known for oranges and Hawaii is know for sugar. Its because that is what grows well in those regions. Try growing oranges and sugar cane in New England, won’t happen.
Ya know, at one point in history we didn't have an abundance of produce being carted across the country on trucks, we didn't have means to grow crops in the size or quantity that we do now. In the span of history, these are recent developments. We're just spoiled and don't want to give up so much as an inch from the level of comfort we've grown accustomed to.

[Fae]

Just for some happy reading:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1841989

http://money.cnn.com/2006/04/19/news/newsmakers/exxon_raymond.reut/index.htm?cnn=yes

[kelly]

I think that to expect a revamping of the agricultural system to more localized farming is a bit of a stretch...

[Laundrew]

lol julie, i remember last year that they had a huge surplus last year and profits were up 40% or something like that. This price hike is bullsh!t

[phillyboy]

I think that to expect a revamping of the agricultural system to more localized farming is a bit of a stretch...
why? cause it would require a lifestyle change?

[kelly]

because the farming industry is headed in the opposite direction - towards large corporate farms that produce just a few products that are well suited to the local climate. Any kind of economic shift is not going to cause a revival of the small diversified farm, it's going to run small farms out of buisness, allowing the large corporate farms to accumulate more land...

[Laundrew]

view usernames post

[phillyboy]

because the farming industry is headed in the opposite direction - towards large corporate farms that produce just a few products that are well suited to the local climate. Any kind of economic shift is not going to cause a revival of the small diversified farm, it's going to run small farms out of buisness, allowing the large corporate farms to accumulate more land...
Larger corporate farms use larger amounts of oil. Won't be able to sustain themselves.

[drnoahfaulkner]

wtf?! 2.75 a gallon for regular. it just cost $42.00 to fill up my honda accord. f whoever/whatever is causing this to happen. i thought we owned all that land that oil comes from now. at this rate gas is going to cost 3.50 a gallon by the summer in new jersey--the land of typically lowers prices and people that cant pump their own gas.

[kelly]

you're saying a large corporate farm uses more oil than a dozen small farms using the same land area?

[Salvador]

I just paid $3.05 yesterday for regular gas outside of San Francisco. It cost me $45 to fill up my Subaru!

[Laundrew]

what type of subaru?

[phillyboy]

you're saying a large corporate farm uses more oil than a dozen small farms using the same land area?
yes i am. .

[kelly]

this seems like the sort of statement one shouldn't make without backing it with sources.

[SnowGeek]

Higher prices don't mean the end of the world, but they will cause changes. In the short term, people will buy more fuel-efficient cars. Longer term, more people will live closer to cities and rely more on public transportation. Food will ship by rail instead of by truck, since trains are far more fuel-efficient. Eventually, more rail lines could be converted to run on electricity, which can be produced by other means than oil (like nuclear or wind).

[DPancoast]

that does seem alittle odd. Im going to research that.

[Nephyte]

Without directly quoting anyone here, I'm going to kinda jump in on a point regarding rural area's and their need for gas.

While you may be against the idea of mass producing crops there are a couple things you should be aware of.

1) To my knowledge, every first world country is built on an agricultural backbone. Your ground must be able to grow food for you to have a healthy economy.

2) The leading sector of business in the United States is Agriculture. Super Urbanizing, and driving all the farmers (Small and Large alike) into urban centers would devestate the American (and Canadian) economy.


No sources to back either one up at the moment, just rough lessons I remember from ecomonics.

[kelly]

uh, no one is driving farmers into the urban center.. the urban center talk was regarding the suburbs.
Farmers will have to rethink distribution methods (trains vs. trucks, for instance) to get food to urban centers in a more fuel efficient way if gas costs are driven up.

[phillyboy]

this seems like the sort of statement one shouldn't make without backing it with sources.
History books are my source: pre-industrial agriculture. Don't you think the big corporate farms use infinitely more oil than small pre-industrial farms?

[phillyboy]

uh, no one is driving farmers into the urban center.. the urban center talk was regarding the suburbs.
Farmers will have to rethink distribution methods (trains vs. trucks, for instance) to get food to urban centers in a more fuel efficient way if gas costs are driven up.
Yes trains would be the ideal way to go. Our railroad system is horrendous compared to many other countries. We need to get our ports fully functional as well. How many functioning ports does the entire island of Manhattan have? Before you go look that one up, the answer is zero.

[kelly]

History books are my source: pre-industrial agriculture. Don't you think the big corporate farms use infinitely more oil than small pre-industrial farms?
Yeah, but modern small farms are not pre-industrial.. they still need to produce large quantities of products to stay afloat, and therefore use the same fuel intensive methods as large farms. It's not like they're still out there with a horse-drawn plow... they're usingt he same combine and plow equipment as everyone else.

[phillyboy]

Yeah, but modern small farms are not pre-industrial.. they still need to produce large quantities of products to stay afloat, and therefore use the same fuel intensive methods as large farms. It's not like they're still out there with a horse-drawn plow... they're usingt he same combine and plow equipment as everyone else.
sigh. you know what i'm going to say now. post-petroleum age = pre-industrial age. that's inevitably what will/needs to happen. The industrial age, which is based on oil, can only sustain itself for so long.

[kelly]

I don't know that that's how it'll work though... to sustain society's current agricultural needs, alternative methods for fueling large scale farm equipment will undoubtedly be developed if it comes to that... like laundrew said, there's some time for the adjustment, they know it's coming.

[snowboardnguy90]

the fact is, though there is a limited amount of oil, there is a ****load of it. it's just that countries sell it for unreasonable amounts of money, because it's all concentrated in a few spots of the earth, almost like a monopoly. the best thing to do would be to negotiate lower prices with OPEC, or to find another fuel source.

[kelly]

Or, to take the george bush approach and attack every country that has oil...

[snowboardnguy90]

yee-haw.

let's round us up some nu-cu-lurrrr weapons!

[phillyboy]

the fact is, though there is a limited amount of oil, there is a ****load of it.
That's a fact? Where are you getting your numbers from that support this fact? Cause statistics are showing that there WAS a ****load of it however now with all the supplies peaking we're left with less than a ****load. (The US oil supply peaked in the 70s by the way) Oil supplies generally peak 30-50 years after discovery, depending on the size and, as in the case of the Middle East, political events.

[SimonInAustralia]

Would reducing the amount of fossil fuel used per person just be negated over time by the ever increasing population?

Are we really able to reduce the overall fossil fuel consumption, without resorting to alternative energy sources?

[phillyboy]

I don't know that that's how it'll work though... to sustain society's current agricultural needs, alternative methods for fueling large scale farm equipment will undoubtedly be developed if it comes to that... like laundrew said, there's some time for the adjustment, they know it's coming.
What alternative methods will sustain our society's current needs? If they're going to be readily available when we need it (and by readily, I mean available to the masses, not the elite) they should already be in at LEAST development stages.
However, the main problem with your statement is "... sustain society's current agricultural needs..." How long do you think an overpopulated society can sustain itself before nature kicks in and whittling it down?

[kelly]

Everyone else is discussing oil consumption as it relates to sustaining modern society, while you're assuming that modern society cannot be sustained... even if this is true, it sort of makes the entire discussion invalid, because who cares about petty things like price if you're assuming total economic collapse is in the near future? And if there was a total economic collapse, who knows what would happen? There isn't really any precedent for that. Why bother to discuss the problems with modern society if you don't think it's gonna last anyway?

[phillyboy]

It's all intertwined. A society that builds itself around a non-renewable resource and uses it like a completely renewable resource and comes to a point where the economy and every aspect of their life depends on it is bound to fall apart.

[Gumby21]

What alternative methods will sustain our society's current needs? If they're going to be readily available when we need it (and by readily, I mean available to the masses, not the elite) they should already be in at LEAST development stages.
However, the main problem with your statement is "... sustain society's current agricultural needs..." How long do you think an overpopulated society can sustain itself before nature kicks in and whittling it down?

the technologies are out there, at least in development. geothermal, tidal, hydroelectric, wind, nuclear, and solar power plants all exist today. the problem with many of these is that they can only be located in certain places to be effective. also, a big problem is that there still isn't enough people who actually care. sure, people will complain all day about how much gas costs (although it's still, to my knowledge, much cheaper than it is most other countries...), but how many of those people are actually going to DO anything about it? what about hydrogen-powered cars? yes, i know the hydrogen still needs to be produced, and that takes power, but that's where all the above mentioned types of power plants come into play. and not only is the technology there for hydrogen powered cars (already in use on public transportation busses in some cities, though i don't remember which ones....portland, oregon comes to mind for some reason but i could be totally off), but there's also hybrids, and diesel engines which can be converted to run off hemp, leftover cooking oil, or a few other things. even if people still had completely gas powered cars, they could buy smaller, more fuel efficient cars instead of all the damn SUVs and pickup trucks. does a soccer mom really need enough horsepower to tow a freakin house, just to drop her kids off at school and go to work? does she have to drive up mount kilimanjaro to get there? sometimes the pure idiocy of humankind in general disgusts me.

end rant now. the end.

[snowboardnguy90]

well, basically what will happen is people will start dying. it's basic biology.

the environment can only hold a certain amount of organisms. if the population grows beyond the holding capacity, it becomes survival of the fittest. the "weaker" die, or in our case, the more poor can't buy gas anymore, while the fitter survive. it balances out.

i feel the only problem we have to deal with is runnign out of fuel, which won't happen any time soon.

and i know there's a ****load of fuel because fossil fuels are made from ancient organisms who have decomposed. you know how many there are?? multiple times the population of humans (this includes dinosaurs, plants, ancient mammals, where the fuel comes from)

[kelly]

and i know there's a ****load of fuel because fossil fuels are made from ancient organisms who have decomposed. you know how many there are?? multiple times the population of humans (this includes dinosaurs, plants, ancient mammals, where the fuel comes from)
dude, do your research, you just sound like an idiot. Are you quantifying fossil fuel based on how many dinosaurs there were?

[SimonInAustralia]

well, basically what will happen is people will start dying. it's basic biology.

the environment can only hold a certain amount of organisms. if the population grows beyond the holding capacity, it becomes survival of the fittest. the "weaker" die, or in our case, the more poor can't buy gas anymore, while the fitter survive. it balances out.Unfortunately the weaker organisms that will die first will be all the other non-human animals on the planet, species are are ready becoming extinct at an alarming rate, as well as those humans in the poorer countries.

We are trashing the planet for future generations. By the time people work out that something major has to be done about the global plague of humans, it will be too late to undo the damage.

[Snow Wolf]

I kind of think that high gas prices are great. It forces us to drive/consume less which is what is going to help keep the NON-renewable resource of oil around longer. If gas prices stayed low we would consume it at the same rate we have been and it would be gone in a few decades at most.
You can't create more of a non-renewable resource which means that you can't increase supply. So demand needs to slacken. When that happens, prices go down again which causes demand to rise again.

While what you say is true about reducing consumption, that would be better regulated through taxation. Commercial transportation needs cheap fuel otherwise our whole ecconomy fails. Through a fuel tax that exempts commercial transportation like trucking and rail, you can keep inflation of commodoties under control and tax the hell out of people who still insist on driving a Hummer. The poorest are the ones who can least afford any price increase in commodoties and transportation costs are skyrocketing. Everything you said is true, but we need to keep the global ecconomy intact at least long enought to convert to alternative, renewable energy. Great post though as usual...:)

[thedude]

There is plenty of precedent for the economic revival of a dilapidated area. If people are forced by economy to move back into the urban center, crime rates will drop as the urban core is populated by a more even mix of people (not just the extremely poor). Recent development in denver has repopulated downtown, which used to just be businesses and a scary, bombed out warehouse district. Now, since there are people living in this warehouse district, there are people around at all hours and the crime has dropped in this area.

and by forcing it brings a lto fo resentment. half the battle on that though is getig peopel convinced that they want to move back into the city. sounds to me liek the case with denver si that they had a goodplan, followed through on it, and got peple convinced they wanted to be back in the city. and currently, the way the michigan economy is, it's gogin to take steps towards another type of product to introduce to get anythign liek that to work here. because we are so heavily automotive based, and since everythgn is goign over seas, we are gettign hit, hard. and detrot being our major city, the "automotive capital of the world," it's goign to take more work than what we can possably afford and put forth. if there was a way we codl get detroit to be more business oriented, just fr sake of compairison saying become a bti more liek New York or something similar, then we codl stand chace. and to get that started, we are most likely goginto have to convince outside investors and business types that detrot will be the next big thing, and then they will have to act upon it to revive our economy. basically, we don't ahve the resources t pull this off, and will have to inquire about outside influences to get it started

[thedude]

oh yeah, and gas just hit the 3 dollar mark today for low grade-87, about $3.10 for mid, and $3.20 for high. i'm to broke to afford this ****

[kelly]

and by forcing it brings a lto fo resentment. half the battle on that though is getig peopel convinced that they want to move back into the city. sounds to me liek the case with denver si that they had a goodplan, followed through on it, and got peple convinced they wanted to be back in the city. and currently, the way the michigan economy is, it's gogin to take steps towards another type of product to introduce to get anythign liek that to work here. because we are so heavily automotive based, and since everythgn is goign over seas, we are gettign hit, hard. and detrot being our major city, the "automotive capital of the world," it's goign to take more work than what we can possably afford and put forth. if there was a way we codl get detroit to be more business oriented, just fr sake of compairison saying become a bti more liek New York or something similar, then we codl stand chace. and to get that started, we are most likely goginto have to convince outside investors and business types that detrot will be the next big thing, and then they will have to act upon it to revive our economy. basically, we don't ahve the resources t pull this off, and will have to inquire about outside influences to get it started
Well, development outside of the planning stages is never done by the city - the city is only responsible for providing infrastructure and a general idea of what they want developed, which isn't a huge expense for a city whose infrastructure is already in place. Developers put forward the money and take on the financial risk of developing this area with the hope that they can buy land super cheap and make a ****load of money if their developments are successful. And this isn't precisely forcing things... things need to happen that make a more urban lifestyle more desirable. The 50's model of the american dream with suburban houses on a yard isn't really a viable one in the long term.

[snowboardnguy90]

dude, do your research, you just sound like an idiot. Are you quantifying fossil fuel based on how many dinosaurs there were?

fossil fuels are named because they are named out of fossils. any dead organism that died long enough ago, if preserved in the right way, will become a fossil fuel. fossil fuels are made of carbon compounds, which come from the carbon in dead organisms. the more dead organisms = the more fossil fuels.

[snowboardnguy90]

Unfortunately the weaker organisms that will die first will be all the other non-human animals on the planet, species are are ready becoming extinct at an alarming rate, as well as those humans in the poorer countries.

We are trashing the planet for future generations. By the time people work out that something major has to be done about the global plague of humans, it will be too late to undo the damage.

yea, i never said it was a good thing. but in reality it can't be stopped unless we make it illegal for parents to have more than 1 child, which would let the population decrease. but that's almost impossible, and probably won't pass the legal formalities in most countries. Even then, people live a good 20 years longer on average then from 100-150 years ago, which is causing the generations to pile up on each other.

but never fear. fusion reactors are in the makes and can possibly be available in 40 years or so. then, we wont' rely on fuels for power.

[SimonInAustralia]

yea, i never said it was a good thing. but in reality it can't be stopped unless we make it illegal for parents to have more than 1 child, which would let the population decrease. but that's almost impossible, and probably won't pass the legal formalities in most countries. Even then, people live a good 20 years longer on average then from 100-150 years ago, which is causing the generations to pile up on each other.That is the disturbing thing, the problem can be addressed, but it seems like there is nothing that will be done about it...the planet as we know it is doomed!

[Naked Hiker]

Is there snowboarding on mars?


lol =)

[SimonInAustralia]

Is there snowboarding on mars?


lol =)I think it is quite possible that Mars may have been more similar to Earth in the past, maybe Earth will end up like Mars sooner as a result of it's treatment by humans?

[snowboardnguy90]

oh man how about on the moon? you'd be able to grab massive air on the moon.

[DPancoast]

**** **** I just paid $34 for A HALF A ****ING TANK. This sucks

[Snow Wolf]

I think it is quite possible that Mars may have been more similar to Earth in the past, maybe Earth will end up like Mars sooner as a result of it's treatment by humans?

Yeah I was reading an article in Scientific American that speculated that Mars may hve indeed been teaming with life and cataclysmic event happened to a possible planet between Mars and Jupiter...where the asteroid belt is now, may have sent massive amounts of debris into mars and ripped away it`s atmosphere and water. That event may have seeded life on Earth as Mars debris fell onto Earth. I t was an interesting theory anyway. Actually, the way we are going with possible runaway green house effect we are more likely to end up like Venus.....oh lovely!

[SimonInAustralia]

Yeah I was reading an article in Scientific American that speculated that Mars may hve indeed been teaming with life and cataclysmic event happened to a possible planet between Mars and Jupiter...where the asteroid belt is now, may have sent massive amounts of debris into mars and ripped away it`s atmosphere and water. That event may have seeded life on Earth as Mars debris fell onto Earth. I t was an interesting theory anyway.I think that it is quite possible that life on Earth came from mars...what would that do to the religions on Earth?

[thedude]

Well, development outside of the planning stages is never done by the city - the city is only responsible for providing infrastructure and a general idea of what they want developed, which isn't a huge expense for a city whose infrastructure is already in place. Developers put forward the money and take on the financial risk of developing this area with the hope that they can buy land super cheap and make a ****load of money if their developments are successful. And this isn't precisely forcing things... things need to happen that make a more urban lifestyle more desirable. The 50's model of the american dream with suburban houses on a yard isn't really a viable one in the long term.

then i guess in a nut shell: Detroit is ****ed, lol. time for me to move west