Wind-Generated Power

[SnoChica]

This really isn't politics, but it fits....

I received a notice from my Electric Co. today. They are finally offering wind-generated electricity. I'm thinking "Great, **** the oil companies and gimme the clean stuff." But I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with this method of generation. Is it reliable? How does the transmission wire know that I'm getting the clean stuff vs. the fossil fuel based? (hypothetical) How do I know that's what I'm getting? I mean, my next door neighbor is taking energy from the same power line. Is it costly? These wind towers are in the Poconos. That also makes me a little uneasy since they are utilizing open land for these things, but still, it's gotta be better than oil, right?

[phillyboy]

I can't really answer most of what you want to know but in my opinion, it's a lesser of two evils when choosing to utilize open land for wind-generated power. Alternative energy sources are definitely what we need to be doing. Check out this link, if you believe it we're pretty much in the 11th hour. www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net
But that's awesome that you have the choice. You'll have to give me more specifics when you find out more.

[kelly]

They use wind power out here, it has a lot of advantages - although they are in open land, they don't take up very much space at ground level, and here they are often used as a secondary source of income for farmers - or even become the primary source of income, while the land around them is still used for agriculture....
I don't know that they specifically know that the exact power that goes to you is from the wind farm, I think the way it works is you request that a specific portion of your power comes from wind, and power useage for all of the people who request this is added up, and determines the minimum amount of power the utility company must be recieving from wind farms.... So by requesting it, you are driving the production of more green power
As far as reliability goes, you are still on the grid, so there will be no noticeable changes in your service that are related to wind power generation.

[e.]

i have seen them in CA. the wind mill fields for miles. from what i hear it all the same with the physics how a magnet gets rotated in a coil. the only disadvantage i can think of is that they are ugly to look at and take up a lot of land but i am sure advancement is the technology are making them lighter, smaller, and more efficient.

[kelly]

I think wind farms are kinda cool looking, not ugly....
And actually technological advancements in wind farming are going towards bigger blades, not smaller, because they are more efficient.

[e.]

you are a tree hugger. heh

[kelly]

yep... and I took a class in sustainability last semester, so I know some stuff.

[Type_0]

wind power is kinda funky from my understanding... to start the fan, if you wana call it that, they use electricity to start it in the first place then let the wind to keep it going. also for space consumption, for new york city to be completely powered by wind power, over 1/4 the city would have to be totaly covered by towers. for solar power, over 1/2 the city. and for nuclear (fusion, once they do it, and their verry close) the plant take up a little over a square mile. (im kida pulling these numbers outa my ass, well actualy from the best of my memory because i cant find the pop. mechanics at the moment i got alll of the info from) their are many other alternatives being looked at like utilizing the tide for power (little bouies*spelling?* that have a spring in them that compresses when tide rises and depress when it goes out)

[Type_0]

also from my understanding a power grid usualy comes from one source, not all different or something. but i could be wrong.

[kelly]

I'm pretty sure most power grids come from diversified sources... at least where I live... there are wind farms and a variety of power plants serving this area.... each smaller grid comes from the same big transformer station, I think.
Environmentally, the best thing seems to diversify environmentally friendly sources, depending on climate - wind power is only efficient in some climates, and tidal power is a good option for coastal areas....

[SimonInAustralia]

Down here I think it costs about twice as much to produce power from wind as it does from coal. That's the problem here (and I guess elsewhere as well), it costs too much. The government set a minimum amount of energy that has to be produced from renewable energy sources, to force the use of renewable energy. This target is close to being set, and hopefully the government will modify the targets to force greater use of renewable energy.

We, the population of this planet, need to realise that we can't keep treating the planet the way we are. If it costs more to live with less harmful impact on the environment, then we just have to do so.

Like Kelly said, you don't get connected directly to the renewable energy source, you just ask the power company to source the amount of power you (and other green customers) use from renewable sources.


Sort of on topic (and not that most of you would be interested anyway)...

There are a lot of 360 degree photos (over 220) of wind farms, power stations, etc. on this site, which is worldwide project run 4 times a year to create 360 degree panoramic images based on a theme, the latest theme being 'Energy'...

http://geoimages.berkeley.edu/wwp905/index.html

You need Quicktime Player to view the images. And you can click and drag on the image to make it pan left/right/up/down, and press Shift and Ctrl keys to zoom in/out.

I like this one, only of a single wind turbine though, and not a wind farm. I like that fact that is was taken by hanging the camera from a kite, and controlling the camera movments and shutter release using a remote control to take the necessary 360 degree sequence of images....

http://geoimages.berkeley.edu/wwp905/html/ScottHaefner.html

[SpottyFish]

The transmission wire doesn't know you're getting "wind generated power". You just pay extra on your bill to help fund wind generated power. You still get the same regular power you've been getting before.

Make sense?.............no it didn't make sense to me either.

PGE does that here too.

[kelly]

Well, the idea is to create a demand for wind power... consumers who want to do this elect to pay a little more for the electric company to agree to get the amount of power they consume from wind. Although the power you specifically use may not actually come from wind, an equal amount of power does... instead of all of the power coming from less renewable sources.

[kelly]

Down here I think it costs about twice as much to produce power from wind as it does from coal. That's the problem here (and I guess elsewhere as well), it costs too much. The government set a minimum amount of energy that has to be produced from renewable energy sources, to force the use of renewable energy. This target is close to being set, and hopefully the government will modify the targets to force greater use of renewable energy.

We, the population of this planet, need to realise that we can't keep treating the planet the way we are. If it costs more to live with less harmful impact on the environment, then we just have to do so.

Like Kelly said, you don't get connected directly to the renewable energy source, you just ask the power company to source the amount of power you (and other green customers) use from renewable sources.


Sort of on topic (and not that most of you would be interested anyway)...

There are a lot of 360 degree photos (over 220) of wind farms, power stations, etc. on this site, which is worldwide project run 4 times a year to create 360 degree panoramic images based on a theme, the latest theme being 'Energy'...

http://geoimages.berkeley.edu/wwp905/index.html

You need Quicktime Player to view the images. And you can click and drag on the image to make it pan left/right/up/down, and press Shift and Ctrl keys to zoom in/out.

I like this one, only of a single wind turbine though, and not a wind farm. I like that fact that is was taken by hanging the camera from a kite, and controlling the camera movments and shutter release using a remote control to take the necessary 360 degree sequence of images....

http://geoimages.berkeley.edu/wwp905/html/ScottHaefner.html

Those are fun. :)

[SnoChica]

Ok... I did it. I elected to have 200 kWh per month generated from the Windmills. I understand more about how it works, and realize that what I'm actually doing is teeling the power company to reduce the load of electricity being generated by a non sustainable-source. Thereby allowing the windmills to produce that 200 kWh load to the grid.

I agree with Simon, the long-term rewards of creating a cleaner more sustainable energy source far outweigh the short-term, monetary loss of $5/month.

[kelly]

Yay for snochica! Go tree-huggin! :)

[SnoChica]

Here's something else that's cool.... it's a calculator that shows how the CO2 emmissions you are reducing equate to values we can more easily understand.

My choice in wind power is equivalent to planting 179 Trees per year!

http://www.exeloncorp.com/peco/customer_marketing_services/marketing/calculator.asp

[kelly]

Wow, that's pretty good...

[phillyboy]

This really isn't politics, but it fits....

Hell yeah it's politics.

[Snow Wolf]

We have a lot of hydroelectric power generation here in the PNW...this is a green sustainable way to generate power too. The dams need to be constructed in a manner that does not destroy the natural environment too much...fish ladders etc. Also, some places we have built dams were just wrong...Glen Canyon dam on the Colorado is one such dam.....it flooded a scenic wonder that should have been protected. I think Hoover and Parker dams are okay though due to the terrain they constructed in. Cold Fusion is showing some promise from articles I have read on the research...mostly in Europe.....American oil and coal companies won`t let anything upset their apple cart till its either all gone or we`re all suffocated from the pollution.
Mt. Hood meadows runs a couple of lifts on 100% wind energy....well they demand that amount of KWH usage from PGE to be clean. We can do so much more with wind energy.....half the state of Wyoming could be a huge wind generating plant....Nevada and the Dakotas also have millions of acres of basically wasteland that could be used for generating clean energy. Salt River Project in Arizona is experimenting with solar farms as well.....good place to produce solar power!!!

[SnoChica]

Thanks for bringing this post back.. I should mention that I have not noticed a difference in my monthly electric bill AT ALL! :)

[jon1976]

Not to get off topic but, Glan Canyon Dam and the Hoover Dam have basically cut off the once "Mighty Colorado" that used to "rush" into Mexico. Thanks to us and our concrete wonders used for providing lush green lawns in Vegas and other areas, the river "trickles into Mexico at best. That isn't fair, that isn't environmentally and neighborly responsible. It's selfish and deplorable. But we're the US of A. Screw everyone else, and hey, they're just Mexicans right?

[kelly]

yeah, well, I never cared for mexico. No snowboarding ;)
the next wave in hydroelectric is using ocean tides to generate power... much better than dams, because they don't stop up rivers or disrupt the ecosystem in any way.

[Type_0]

i read in a popular mechanics mag. that a swedish cpompany was trying to develop a new source of energy. they use a wind tunel of sorts and waves to push air in and out of the wind tunel. they have 2 large barriers that bring the wave into the center so there like this


--wave-->> >barrier

and they use rods to create bigger waves. so the device doesent have to be close to land. there also planing on testing one in RI. pretty nifty stuff.

[Snow Wolf]

Not to get off topic but, Glan Canyon Dam and the Hoover Dam have basically cut off the once "Mighty Colorado" that used to "rush" into Mexico. Thanks to us and our concrete wonders used for providing lush green lawns in Vegas and other areas, the river "trickles into Mexico at best. That isn't fair, that isn't environmentally and neighborly responsible. It's selfish and deplorable. But we're the US of A. Screw everyone else, and hey, they're just Mexicans right?

Yeah...Glen Canyon dam should not have been built and now it should be removed....Hoover and the others downstream would be fine for power generation, but what`s sucking the Colorado dry is all the water that is being taken from it to meet the desires of too many people.....The Central Arizona Project brings in vast amounts of water from the Colorado to Phoenix. I lived in Phoenix for 5 years...all my landscaping was 100% desert plants.....I love the folks coming in from say like Michigan who have to make their landscaping look just like they had back home; using un Godly amounts of water.....if you don`t like the way a desert looks, don`t move there!

[kelly]

I think arizona is giving people tax breaks for xeriscaping now, hopefully that'll help :)
Or maybe that was nevada?

[jon1976]

Exactly Snow wolf. I just don't get that. I think it's people with this mentality that they have the right to do whatever, whereever, and at whatever cost. I wish these people would just drive straight into the side of a Walmart at like, 70 mph.

[SimonInAustralia]

Put a turbine and generator on my ass, I'll give you wind-generated power!

[phillyboy]

Put a turbine an generator on my ass, I'll give you wind-generated power!
is there any scientific merit to this claim?

[SimonInAustralia]

You can come play with my ass if you want to test my theory.

[phillyboy]

why don't you use your turbine and generator/ass contraption to helicopter your way over here.

[Snow Wolf]

If ya dressed up like a sheep...he might take you up on that....:)

[soldier9599]

Wind power is a complete waste of money... yea, its more environmentally friendly, but all the companies that have invested in it have lost billions of dollars... as far as the price for the consumer, i really dont know, but based on that i would guess that it would probably be expensive...

[sheil21ob]

well that would have ended this thread nicely but I thought I'd as just some links.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/energy/Chapter6.pdf

Essentially the credits and tax incentives for commercial, federal and residential buildings are Bush's way of placating people for not ratifying the Kyoto protocol treaty.

His stance was not to force companies to clean up their act, (be held responsible for their actions) but to offer incentive to do so....
which will work but I'm afraid way too slowly.
So your electric company get "shares" in alternative power which they can allocate to different consumers. For each of these shares they get tax breaks and we create more of a demand for alternative sources of power. According to the above article our alt power usage is 9% of our entire supply, but it's been growing.
Also keep in mind the source of thisd article and what they want you to believe... (and how they benefit by that belief) Ok... nuff outta me. :)

[sheil21ob]

[QUOTE=sheil21ob]well that would have ended this thread nicely....

I was referring to the sheep comments NOT the above one..

[phillyboy]

Wind power is a complete waste of money... yea, its more environmentally friendly, but all the companies that have invested in it have lost billions of dollars... as far as the price for the consumer, i really dont know, but based on that i would guess that it would probably be expensive...
as far as the price for the consumer, if you just go back a page:

Thanks for bringing this post back.. I should mention that I have not noticed a difference in my monthly electric bill AT ALL! :)
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[SimonInAustralia]

Wind power is a complete waste of money... yea, its more environmentally friendly, but all the companies that have invested in it have lost billions of dollars... as far as the price for the consumer, i really dont know, but based on that i would guess that it would probably be expensive...Maybe because the cost of power from fossil fuels does not take into account the environmental damage that is being caused by their use. As well as the cost of power from fossil fuel, there is the hidden cost in the damage using that power does to the environment. Maybe if this cost was factored into the price, then the cost of wind power might not be more expensive than fossil fuel power.

[ADRsk8boarder]

wind power is a very reliable and more cost efficent program in the futrue,,,, the downsides are that people are not willing to switch completely from fossils fules and the fans take up vast amounts of land and only work in certain areas i.e: windy places

[Type_0]

Wind power is a complete waste of money... yea, its more environmentally friendly, but all the companies that have invested in it have lost billions of dollars... as far as the price for the consumer, i really dont know, but based on that i would guess that it would probably be expensive...

ad for that reason, the poeple of a small town in new york tried to oppose the building of a wind fan gerator thingie. and they company that wanted to build it, by using some stupid law, got around the opposition and got the rights to peoples "unused" private property to build it. and the poeple of the town and the land being used have no choice. i got to talk to some people being affected. they were mostly farmers. and because of this construction, their lively-hood is in jepordy.

sorry bout that, unused as in a lot of cattle pastures and also the path needed to get to the site of construction is directly through currently used farm land

[SimonInAustralia]

ad for that reason, the poeple of a small town in new york tried to oppose the building of a wind fan gerator thingie. and they company that wanted to build it, by using some stupid law, got around the opposition and got the rights to peoples unused private property to build it. and the poeple of the town and the land being used have no choice. i got to talk to some people being affected. they were mostly farmers. and because of this construction, their lively-hood is in jepordy.If it is being built on unused land, how is it affecting the livelyhood of the farmers?

[phillyboy]

If it is being built on unused land, how is it affecting the livelyhood of the farmers?
Sounds like the "best and highest use" possibly being put into good effect.

[Levi]

The sad thing is there are to many rich oil people in the world that use their money and power to hinder the work for alternate power sources. Yes we have made steps, but we need to make leaps and bounds to even think we are going to save this place we call home.

[StaredAt]

I work for the go'vt...yes I work for the gov't, please don't throw me off this site...for an environmental agency which will remain unnamed (I've already been written up for mentioning my opinion in conjunction with my position becasue it was used as a quote on the news). Wind generated electricity is just as reliable as every other form of electricity out there. Since it works on the same principles as the majority of the power generating systems out there.

Unfortunately it also has some of the same environmental issues. Just as hydroelectric dams will screw up the entire ecosystem surrounding a watershed, these too seem to do some harm. There have been thousands of cases of migrating songbirds being killed off by the windmills or wind turbines. On the other hand, this also happens in major cities, where syscrapers are built with reflective glass.

You have to weigh the pros and cons but to simplify it, the cleanest energy sources are electric, natural gas and then oil in that order. This has no reflection on the price or efficiency but if you make a decent income and are willing to deal with some of the drawbacks, electric is generally the way to go.

We have yet to learn to live with nature, and even most so called naturalists arent willing to make an attempt to balance our condensed populations and the natural resources that we interact with each day.

Drop me a mail if you have any other questions.

[sheil21ob]

I work for the go'vt...yes I work for the gov't, please don't throw me off this site...for an environmental agency which will remain unnamed (I've already been written up for mentioning my opinion in conjunction with my position becasue it was used as a quote on the news). Wind generated electricity is just as reliable as every other form of electricity out there. Since it works on the same principles as the majority of the power generating systems out there.

Unfortunately it also has some of the same environmental issues. Just as hydroelectric dams will screw up the entire ecosystem surrounding a watershed, these too seem to do some harm. There have been thousands of cases of migrating songbirds being killed off by the windmills or wind turbines. On the other hand, this also happens in major cities, where syscrapers are built with reflective glass.

You have to weigh the pros and cons but to simplify it, the cleanest energy sources are electric, natural gas and then oil in that order. This has no reflection on the price or efficiency but if you make a decent income and are willing to deal with some of the drawbacks, electric is generally the way to go.

We have yet to learn to live with nature, and even most so called naturalists arent willing to make an attempt to balance our condensed populations and the natural resources that we interact with each day.

Drop me a mail if you have any other questions.

Very cool. It's always good to have someone with working knowledge of a topic.

[ADRsk8boarder]

ahhh to many dont want to make the jump

[phillyboy]

ahhh to many dont want to make the jump
maybe if there was more effort on marketing it and educating the public... that seems like a problem with a lot of things.

[Naked Hiker]

that philly, is the key! How about this........every snowboarder gets a big fan put on them so that they can make energy as they are flying down the slopes.....just a idea guys.......lol

let's get the word out.!!!!

[sheil21ob]

My sister wants to harness all the wasted manpower spent at a gym.... just think of it!
people on stationary bikes, treadmills, stair climbers....
and in NY..... LOTS of gyms!

[Naked Hiker]

it sounds funny but I bet it could make alot of energy!

[sheil21ob]

now if we could only figure out how.....

[ADRsk8boarder]

haha good idea... hook something up to a stationary rowing machine gets hella energy out of that ****

[Snow Wolf]

I read an intriguing article on obiting power stations that collect energy from the sun both by photo=voltaic cells and harnessing the solar wind then beaming the energy down to Earth via microwave energy. It was really inersesting.

[ADRsk8boarder]

very cool....