Bush knew New Orleans would flood!

[Snow Wolf]

Here is more evidence backing up what most of us already know. The AP is breaking the story of how FEMA director Michale Brown breifed the moron-in-chief days before landfall that Katrina would devastate New Orleans and the levees could fail. Don`t let your right wing friends BS you, check out the video for yourself and draw your own conclussions....his negligence has killed people in New Orleans and he lies about it (don`t even get me started about the deaths related to his lies regarding Iraq).....gee did`nt we impeach President Clinton for lying about a blow job??? Seems to me we got some really screwy priorities.....

http://www.democrats.org/page/invite/katrinavideo

[karen]

no....we didn't impeach clinton, actually. i guess it was a possibility, but it didn't happen.

[Snow Wolf]

no....we didn't impeach clinton, actually. i guess it was a possibility, but it didn't happen.
Actually, yes he was impeached by congress but not forced from office...re-read your history...here is a link to one of the many news stories....click it and learn!


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/clinton_under_fire/latest_news/238784.stm

[asteink1]

no one cares about stupid politics...were a bunch of snowboarders.

[Laundrew]

no one cares about stupid politics...were a bunch of snowboarders.

statements like these are why bush is in office right now.

[phillyboy]

no one cares about stupid politics...were a bunch of snowboarders.
Politics affect everyone if you live in the world. Don't be ignorant. And if we weren't supposed to talk about politics on here there wouldn't be a Politics forum.

[Weasel Sp]

^^ yup i agree..

I remember watching the news today mourning also and they showd a vid of bush in a meeting or something and when he knew about the flooding he was asking about these stupid questions instead of the most important ones, he asked people like " is the dome ok? is it damaged? " he did not ask one question regarding the cities it self and the inhabitants of new orleans..

Also what the hell is up with the emergancy responce team thats supposed to help people out in case of a emergancy, it literally took them like 4-6 hours before they even started doing anything..

Bush is always talking about that he has everything covered incase of a emergancy, thats bull he couldnt even get a a dozen of national gaurds or w/e they are to go help until 6 hours later.

Imagine what would have happened if 9/11, katerina happened at the same time? Bush wouldnt know what the hell to do..

[Laundrew]

Also what the hell is up with the emergancy responce team thats supposed to help people out in case of a emergancy, it literally took them like 4-6 hours before they even started doing anything..

Bush is always talking about that he has everything covered incase of a emergancy, thats bull he couldnt even get a a dozen of national gaurds or w/e they are to go help until 6 hours later.


Part of Katrina falls on the local governments but by the time the Army National Guard was supposed to be mobilized their database servers were underwater. How do i know this, because we asked them to move them to a safer location days before the storm hit.

[burnpianoxisland]

no one cares about stupid politics...were a bunch of snowboarders.

:hurt:

Most idiotic statement on SBA, 06'.

[Weasel Sp]

^^ i agree with you

[nosnowhere]

no one cares about stupid politics...were a bunch of snowboarders.
Being from Louisiana I care very much about this topic. Many of my friends lost their homes in Katrina and it's been painful to watch this administration handle everything leading up to landfall until now.

[nosnowhere]

Part of Katrina falls on the local governments but by the time the Army National Guard was supposed to be mobilized their database servers were underwater. How do i know this, because we asked them to move them to a safer location days before the storm hit.

The Army Corps of Engineers built a storm wall that failed to hold the water back...water did not spill over the top of the levee, it broke right through it. The Federal Government for years has refused to help New Orleans and the rest of the gulf coast to lessen the damage done by hurricanes. Louisiana has been trying to get federal assistance for years to help stop coastal erosion and build up some of the barrier islands that form a natural solution to weakening the hurricane's effects. The port of New Orleans is one of the most important ports in this country and the federal government for years failed to give the port and its city any protection. Oil and petroleum refineries are along the coast and are the backbone of the United States as we all know how bad this country's dependance on oil is. The federal government doesn't care one bit about the southern U.S. though and it will most likely remain that way unfortunately as they feel everybody down here is nothing but imbred, backwards, morons.

[TheDanger-Zone]

No gov is good gov, I am a anarchist. No gov....
plus if anyone is dumb enough to live below sea level, well they get what they get.

interesting news clips Snow Wolf. But they all lie and cheat. No party is a good party.

[Snow Wolf]

Sorry to hear how closely this has affected you........
Under Shrub....those federal funds were cut even further.....I read that a lot of contractors volunteered their time and equipment for free to try to improve the levees because they cared about their city..........Shrub is doing for America what he did for the Texas Rangers........God I HATE the son of a b!tch!!!!!

[Snow Wolf]

No gov is good gov, I am a anarchist. No gov....
plus if anyone is dumb enough to live below sea level, well they get what they get.

interesting news clips Snow Wolf. But they all lie and cheat. No party is a good party.

Sadly this is becoming so true......its hard to tell a D from an R anymore....they are all corporate whores! I am a socialist-communist and do think that governmet has its place if it serves the populace that empowers it.

[TheDanger-Zone]

it would be nice if we could believe in our gov, but all the parties lie about their agendas. the republicans are nothing they use to be, the dems are not even for the people anymore, they are just out there to line their own pockets like the rest of them.
Plus all through out history they only tell you what they want you to know/hear.
Yes it is sad that I have become so hardan and jaded

[DPancoast]

When I started hearing this on the news, I just laughed and shook my head. Sucks when they show the president smiling nervously trying to dig his "great carrer" out of the ****hole

[Snow Wolf]

Yeah, I actually feel bad for Michale Brown....he was made the scapegoat and it now turns out he was sounding the alarm from the begining and was ignored.

[TheDanger-Zone]

socialist-communist.

you know brah, if either one of those would really work with out someone wanting all the power and becoming a dictator I would be all for it, but just like true anarchristim it will never work there is always someone that will abuse it.

[TheDanger-Zone]

Yeah, I actually feel bad for Michale Brown....he was made the scapegoat and it now turns out he was sounding the alarm from the beginning and was ignored.

yeah that does suck, but that happen with 911 also. And I am sure so much more then we will not even know about for decades to come.

[Snow Wolf]

Yeah I know youre right 100% on that.....but its a nice Utopian fantasy.

[TheDanger-Zone]

Yeah I know youre right 100% on that.....but its a nice Utopian fantasy.

hahahha yeah I hear ya brah.

[Snow Wolf]

From this mess, I really think we need to make FEMA an independent agency and get it out from under Homeland Security. They are so obsessed with terrorism that they ignore natural disasters......I shudder to think what will happen if California gets "the big one" or what if Mt. Raineer goes and devastates Seattle with these people in charge!

[TheDanger-Zone]

From this mess, I really think we need to make FEMA an independent agency and get it out from under Homeland Security. They are so obsessed with terrorism that they ignore natural disasters......I shudder to think what will happen if California gets "the big one" or what if Mt. Raineer goes and devastates Seattle with these people in charge!

I have to agree with you there brah, my kids live some what close to Mt. Raineer.

[TheDanger-Zone]

I really feel we need to stop being the UN's world police dogs, and worry about our own. Take care of OUR OWN.

[Snow Wolf]

Oh come now......don`t you realize that Bush is on a holy mission from God to force our version of Democracy upon the entire Middle East whether they want it or not, not to mention liberate them from those pesky natural resources.....LOL

But I do agree....I think national health care would be a great start!

[TheDanger-Zone]

hahaha ooh yeah but that did not work with the crusades what makes them think it would really work now. It goes truely much deeper then that.

[Snow Wolf]

I think the full truth of their global agenda is truly terrifying! Also, I find it really alarming that people like Bush in positions of great power are so eager to bring about Armageddon because they believe this will fullfill biblical prophesy and they will all get raptured up to heaven.


edited...this is getting deep....I think I need a dose of fresh POW!!!!

[TheDanger-Zone]

I think the full truth of their global agenda is truly terrifying! Also, I find it really alarming that people like Bush in positions of great power are so eager to bring about Armageddon because they believe this will fulfill biblical prophesy and they will all get raptured up to heaven.


edited...this is getting deep....I think I need a dose of fresh POW!!!!

yeah I hear that, his and his ol mans NEW WORLD ORDER chit scares the crap out of me.
and they are fools enough to think they are doing a good thing :doh:
they are the devils child's. (all that are into the NEW WORLD ORDER THING).

[phillyboy]

The footage, seeing Bush acknowledge the danger, do nothing about it, then lie about it, is truly sickening. Not even from a political standpoint, just from the standpoint of a person seeing the potential for all this danger to people's lives and not caring.
I'm all about armaggedon but I don't know that Bush has the power to force God's hand. And I don't know if the guy that starts it gets raptured. In fact I think they call that guy the Antichrist and I think that guy gets f'ed up and thrown into a pit of fire while Johnny Cash plays Ring of Fire.

[Snow Wolf]

Kind of like sitting there and reading "My Pet Goat" for 8 minutes while planes slam into the WTC, Pentagon and a field in Penn before acting like he gives a sh!t......

[phillyboy]

Kind of like sitting there and reading "My Pet Goat" for 8 minutes while planes slam into the WTC, Pentagon and a field in Penn before acting like he gives a sh!t......
My Pet Goat is serious business dude. But yeah, kinda like that.

[nosnowhere]

plus if anyone is dumb enough to live below sea level, well they get what they get.

I guess anybody who lives out in California next to a fault line is just a moron too or maybe those who live near Mount Rainier.

[SnoChica]

I guess anybody who lives out in California next to a fault line is just a moron too or maybe those who live near Mount Rainier.
Or anyone who lives in Tornado Alley? And in a mobile home?

[Type_0]

everyone knew new orleans would flood. it was just a matter of time.

[Type_0]

Kind of like sitting there and reading "My Pet Goat" for 8 minutes while planes slam into the WTC, Pentagon and a field in Penn before acting like he gives a sh!t......

i was just wondering. what do people think he should have done?

[Snow Wolf]

Well, back in august 2001 when he was repeatedly told that Osama Bin Ladden was determined to attack and Al Queida members were taking flight training, he might have paid attention, but the FBI was told to drop the case....the FBI agent in Phoenix Arizona was totally exasperated with the stonewalling coming from Langley! All of his cabinet level security personel like Richard Clark were raising the alarm and were told to shut up by then attorney general John Ashcroft....also this administration from day one was insisting that evidence be produced to justify invading Iraq...even before 9-11......to this day there are millions of stupid people in America that still think Iraq was somehow involved with 9-11 and Al Queida!!!!
On September the 11`th at 8:47 AM Eastern time the first plane stuck the first tower....Bush knew that had occurred before arriving at the school....any idiot could have put 2 and 2 together and put the nation`s air defenses on high alert...but this dope made the retarded statement when he saw the news coverage of the crash on a TV at the school...."There`s one terrible pilot". He then goes into the class room and when Andrew Card comes in and whispers in his ear that a second plane has also hit the other tower and America is under attack...he sits there blinking like a Goddamn Reesis monkey for another 8 minutes untill his staff takes charge and ushers him out of there....for all he knew we could have been under possible nuclear attack and time was crucial and he just sits there.
When that first plane hit, he should have taken charge, called NORAD and had the US Air Force on high alert and had birds in the air to intercept all air traffic that was deviating from their IFR flight plans......the planes involved would have been lost, but the second tower and the Pentagon would not have been hit.......THATS WHAT I THINK HE SHOULD HAVE DONE.....ACT LIKE A LEADER INSTEAD OF THE BABBLING IDIOT HE IS!!!!

When the school is Beslan in Russia was taken over by Islamic terrorists, President Vladimir Putin canceled vaccation and returned ASAP to the Kremlin to deal with the situation....he is a REAL leader. Back in the days of the Cold War which you are too young to remember, our leaders were able to scramble our bombers and flush the ICBM`s within 5 minutes of a launch detection from anywhere in the world......with this piece of sh!t in the White House we would all be smouldering heaps of radioctive slag before he even figured out something had happened!

[TheDanger-Zone]

I guess anybody who lives out in California next to a fault line is just a moron too or maybe those who live near Mount Rainier.

you get what you get, it is your choice where and what dangers you want to live near.
Sorry brah nothing against you and anyone that lives down that way. I have been to B.R. and New Orleans, LA. a few time. But I would never live in the Golf Coast.
I would rather deal with earthquakes and Volcanoes any day.

[phillyboy]

Well, back in august 2001 when he was repeatedly told that Osama Bin Ladden was determined to attack and Al Queida members were taking flight training, he might have paid attention, but the FBI was told to drop the case....the FBI agent in Phoenix Arizona was totally exasperated with the stonewalling coming from Langley! All of his cabinet level security personel like Richard Clark were raising the alarm and were told to shut up by then attorney general John Ashcroft....also this administration from day one was insisting that evidence be produced to justify invading Iraq...even before 9-11......to this day there are millions of stupid people in America that still think Iraq was somehow involved with 9-11 and Al Queida!!!!
On September the 11`th at 8:47 AM Eastern time the first plane stuck the first tower....Bush knew that had occurred before arriving at the school....any idiot could have put 2 and 2 together and put the nation`s air defenses on high alert...but this dope made the retarded statement when he saw the news coverage of the crash on a TV at the school...."There`s one terrible pilot". He then goes into the class room and when Andrew Card comes in and whispers in his ear that a second plane has also hit the other tower and America is under attack...he sits there blinking like a Goddamn Reesis monkey for another 8 minutes untill his staff takes charge and ushers him out of there....for all he knew we could have been under possible nuclear attack and time was crucial and he just sits there.
When that first plane hit, he should have taken charge, called NORAD and had the US Air Force on high alert and had birds in the air to intercept all air traffic that was deviating from their IFR flight plans......the planes involved would have been lost, but the second tower and the Pentagon would not have been hit.......THATS WHAT I THINK HE SHOULD HAVE DONE.....ACT LIKE A LEADER INSTEAD OF THE BABBLING IDIOT HE IS!!!!

When the school is Beslan in Russia was taken over by Islamic terrorists, President Vladimir Putin canceled vaccation and returned ASAP to the Kremlin to deal with the situation....he is a REAL leader. Back in the days of the Cold War which you are too young to remember, our leaders were able to scramble our bombers and flush the ICBM`s within 5 minutes of a launch detection from anywhere in the world......with this piece of sh!t in the White House we would all be smouldering heaps of radioctive slag before he even figured out something had happened!
1) Some of this information I have not heard before, such as knowing about the first plane before he even went in the classroom and the comment he made about that. Where did you find this?
2) It's rhesus monkey.
3) I remember the cold war. GI Joe = cold war/pro-military propaganda, making kids excited to join the army. Damn Russians. I mean Cobra.

[Snow Wolf]

Phillyboy....

There is live video coverage of Bush clearly stating that he saw the plane hit the tower on the TV before he entered the classroom. Do some Google searches about 9-11 and Bush knew the plane hit...etc. Here is a pretty good news article that covers in detail the timeline of that awfull day.

Thanks for the correction on the name of those horrible monkeys....I did`nt know the right spelling and on the age thing, I was refering to type-o`s age....basically the Soviet Union ended in 1991 with a coup and Gorbachev almost bought the farm but was saved by Yeltsin.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/essay.jsp?article=essayaninterestingday

Here is an exceprt from the begining of the article....

"At approximately 8:48 a.m. on the morning of September 11, 2001, the first pictures of the burning World Trade Center were broadcast on live television. The news anchors, reporters, and viewers had little idea what had happened in lower Manhattan, but there were some people who did know. By that time, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD), the National Military Command Center, the Pentagon, the White House, the Secret Service, and Canada's Strategic Command all knew that three commercial airplanes had been hijacked. They knew that one plane had been flown deliberately into the World Trade Center's North Tower; a second plane was wildly off course and also heading toward Manhattan; and a third plane had abruptly turned around over Ohio and was flying back toward Washington, DC.

So why, at 9:03 a.m.—fifteen minutes after it was clear the United States was under terrorist attack—did President Bush sit down with a classroom of second-graders and begin a 20-minute pre-planned photo op? No one knows the answer to that question. In fact, no one has even asked Bush about it."

[phillyboy]

Phillyboy....

There is live video coverage of Bush clearly stating that he saw the plane hit the tower on the TV before he entered the classroom. Do some Google searches about 9-11 and Bush knew the plane hit...etc. Here is a pretty good news article that covers in detail the timeline of that awfull day.

Thanks for the correction on the name of those horrible monkeys....I did`nt know the right spelling and on the age thing, I was refering to type-o`s age....basically the Soviet Union ended in 1991 with a coup and Gorbachev almost bought the farm but was saved by Yeltsin.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/essay.jsp?article=essayaninterestingday

Here is an exceprt from the begining of the article....

"At approximately 8:48 a.m. on the morning of September 11, 2001, the first pictures of the burning World Trade Center were broadcast on live television. The news anchors, reporters, and viewers had little idea what had happened in lower Manhattan, but there were some people who did know. By that time, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD), the National Military Command Center, the Pentagon, the White House, the Secret Service, and Canada's Strategic Command all knew that three commercial airplanes had been hijacked. They knew that one plane had been flown deliberately into the World Trade Center's North Tower; a second plane was wildly off course and also heading toward Manhattan; and a third plane had abruptly turned around over Ohio and was flying back toward Washington, DC.

So why, at 9:03 a.m.—fifteen minutes after it was clear the United States was under terrorist attack—did President Bush sit down with a classroom of second-graders and begin a 20-minute pre-planned photo op? No one knows the answer to that question. In fact, no one has even asked Bush about it."
Wow, Bush needs to shut up in front of cameras. I really don't understand how this guy's still in office. It's kind of interesting that Michael Moore didn't point that out in Farenheit 911 cause he did bring up the issue of the classroom. Although Moore's movies I think are more reactionist than they are sound arguments.
And you mean the Cold War ended when GI Joe saved the day. No but seriously, I remember all that. It was the first time I ever heard of a coupe and I thought it was the best thing in the world. Whenever I played army with my friends after that I just beat everyone with coupes and since they didn't know what it was they couldn't stop me.

[Fae]

Although Moore's movies I think are more reactionist than they are sound arguments.


Agreed, which is really a pity, because he has a lot of talent as a documentary storyteller. If he would just calm down a bit I think that more people (other than those that already agree with him) would take him more seriously.

Also, I was living in DC during 9/11. It would have been nice to know where the ****ing president was when we all thought we were about to get bombed.

[phillyboy]

Agreed, which is really a pity, because he has a lot of talent as a documentary storyteller. If he would just calm down a bit I think that more people (other than those that already agree with him) would take him more seriously.
Well, I believe he serves his purpose. A lot of left wing people aren't even listened to. Michael Moore at least can make a movie or book entertaining enough for people to watch or read. And he does bring up points that are good enough for people to at least give thought to. Regardless of what side it's coming from, propaganda is just propaganda. Michael Moore elicits an emotive response from people that at least leads people to think about the fact that there is another side to the right wing propaganda. Which often leads to people doing their own research. And I think that doing your own research is the best thing anyone can do. But I still think he can be off the wall, which unfortunately takes away from any credibility he may have.

Also, I was living in DC during 9/11. It would have been nice to know where the ****ing president was when we all thought we were about to get bombed.
Him and some kids got together to help each other read! I was living in New Brunswick, you could see the smoke from the WTC from there. There was cops all around the train station and I think they were more confused than anyone.

[Fae]

But I still think he can be off the wall, which unfortunately takes away from any credibility he may have.

Yeah, pretty much.


Him and some kids got together to help each other read!

I'm sure the kids were helping him with the tough words.

[phillyboy]

now i'm in the mood to go watch some michael moore stuff.

[Type_0]

When that first plane hit, he should have taken charge, called NORAD and had the US Air Force on high alert and had birds in the air to intercept all air traffic that was deviating from their IFR flight plans......the planes involved would have been lost, but the second tower and the Pentagon would not have been hit.......THATS WHAT I THINK HE SHOULD HAVE DONE.....ACT LIKE A LEADER INSTEAD OF THE BABBLING IDIOT HE IS!!!!


ok. well its been recordeed that an air force base cannot get a group of fighter pilots up in the air in under. 6 min. all planes hit what they hit in under a few min from each other. along with clearence for things that they have to go through. they would not have been there in time. plain facts. i believe that he should have done somthing different. if anyhting gone to a secure location. instead ofdefying protocal and continued reading. the kid would not have understood why he left. and prolly wouldent care/remember that the book was longer than that.

and in case of a nuclear war. the world dead. not just us. there will be no one left. with nuclear bunker busting bombs, nothing is inpenatrable anymore.

[Snow Wolf]

Sorry, that does not hold water...I was in the US Air Force from 1982 untill 1987 and we got B-52 bombers launched within 5 minutes when a klaxon went off...fighters can scramble in less time than a fully loaded B-52! Also, American and Canadian air defense knew for nearly 30 minutes that 3 additional planes were hijacked, off course and one heading for Washington DC within a few minutes of the first plane`s impact....there was plenty of time to intercept! Air National Gaurd base commanders along the Eastern sea board were frantically calling NORAD for authorization to scramble, but were told to stand down.....you can try to defend Bush all day long but it changes nothing...he dropped the ball by ignoring months worth of inteligence and warnings and when it happened he still did not get it and when he finally got the picture, he still froze.....unless he knew all along it was going to happen and wanted it to happen as PNAC proposed...."a modern day Pearl Harbor to act as a catalyst to gain public support...." In regard to nukes......there is such a thing as a limited strike...or a rougue state lobbing one our way.....if caught in time we have weaponry that can nuetralize them....so my point is valid about time being the difference between a hit and not.

Here is another excerpt from the news reports.......There was a lot more than "just a few minutes between impacts"........please don`t rely on FOX news or Limbaugh for your news!!!!

"......At 9:16, NORAD was notified that Flight 93 had been hijacked, and at 9:24 it was notified that Flight 77 had also been hijacked and was heading toward Washington (though, as discussed above, the hijacking was known long before this). [NORAD, 9/18/01] No media report has suggested that the possible shooting down of hijacked airplanes was discussed at this time, however. It appears the discussion was not broached until after 9:55. [Washington Post, 1/27/02, CBS, 9/11/02] At about 9:26, it was either FAA head Jane Garvey or FAA administrator Ben Sliney (and not Bush) who decided to halt all airplane takeoffs in the US. [Time, 9/14/01, USA Today, 8/13/02] Additionally, no evidence has appeared suggesting Bush had a role in ordering any fighters into the skies......."

[asteink1]

:hurt:

Most idiotic statement on SBA, 06'.
ill start caring when i can vote...?
but as of now why does it matter to me..and why does my opinion matter to you

[TheDanger-Zone]

ill start caring when i can vote...?
but as of now why does it matter to me..and why does my opinion matter to you

You should start caring now, because you younger guys and gals are our countries future.
remember that and represent us in a way we all would like to be represented.

[Snow Wolf]

ill start caring when i can vote...?
but as of now why does it matter to me..and why does my opinion matter to you
Maybe you should start caring now because in another year you could get drafted and become cannon fodder for this monster`s insane crusades!!!

[phillyboy]

ill start caring when i can vote...?
but as of now why does it matter to me..and why does my opinion matter to you
kids are so ambitious these days. he'll just figure out where he stands on issues the night before the election. i feel confident that the future is in good hands.

[Type_0]

dont worry snow wolf. i dont listen to fox. fox is a joke.(to put it nicely.) and im not realy trying to defend bush. just seeing what other people think. and throughing out my ideas. my brother was in the airforce up untill last year. and listening to all the things hes seen. it kinda scares me. how lax. the gov realy is with things like this. iv seen many videos out there about goverment conspericies. and my biggest problem with them, is 1. anyhting could be goverment propoganda. reverse psych. and 2. un scourced refrences. thats prolly the biggest one. making accusations, without solid proof. and with stuff going on today. anything can be forged, duplicated. ex. and most things there trying to refrence, is hard to get your hands on, to just see for yourself. if there putting out the truth to you or not. i dont like where this country is going. i think too many of our rights are being taken away. i think that our goverment is pulling too much over our heads to "protect us". and i think bush is a show for something bigger going on.

[Snow Wolf]

Well said and I agree!

[Naked Hiker]

man I have been missing a good thread here. I will watch more closely now!

good debates in here. No one is throwing down the "F" bomb at each other. Cheers

sba for goverment!!!!!!

[thedude]

you know brah, if either one of those would really work with out someone wanting all the power and becoming a dictator I would be all for it, but just like true anarchristim it will never work there is always someone that will abuse it.

like Stalin. i would love nothign more than to see the whoel system change over, but the problem is that there is always goginto be some jerk-off who will ruin it. like you said, no governmential system trully works because of the poeple involved. there needs to be a balance in all of it, but peopel themsleevs are nto stable enough to handle that kind of balance. on the democratic side of things, they are for the rights of the peopel, and shelterign themform the abuse of the right-wing conservatives. but at the same time, this creates these dip****s who then want handouts form the government. i liek the idea of helpign peope, but here are idiots who abuse things that are gieven to them and it's all greed. then on the republican side of things, they rely heavily on business and keeping things stable when they work. thsi is good for business, because it keeps people employed, creates jobs when the company grows, and opens up trade which helsp keep the global economy strong. they have tons of problems though, because most of the poeple who are the right wing are penny pinchers,a nd when faced with opposition, espscially today, will throw their power around and thwart the opposition. thsi is beause they want to keep things good for themselevs, which again is caused by greed.

if poele were nto so damn greedy and actually tried to work with eachother, thsi two party system woudl actually work, but there are always the dumbasses who won't give so they can take mroe back with them, who will not share their resources and better the rest of the global market place and make things better for everyoen aroudn the world. that is what i hope for to happens ome day, but it never will.

poeple are greedy ****s, and all they care for is themsleves. so i dunno if thsi can make any sense, but i am anti-nothing and pro nothing. i dont' support government, but i have to becaue the world needs it in most cases, i am not pro nihilism, yet i am nto against it either. basically the system has put me in a situation, a mental state if you will, that nothing ever works. this woudl make me the biggest hippocrate that i know, because i can see hwo things will work, but i see hwo they will fail, and either way in todays world, i ahve to make choices, but knowing that i still hate that choice.

the only thing i am for is unity. if the people truly are united, then they can never be divided, and no facist dictatorial ******* can take that form us.

[thedude]

man I have been missing a good thread here. I will watch more closely now!

good debates in here. No one is throwing down the "F" bomb at each other. Cheers

sba for goverment!!!!!!

i knwo what you mean man, i dunno what the hell i have been missing! lol

[Type_0]

in simple as i see it. human nature has set us on a collision corse with the wall of self-innialation(sp.?).

all this dabate is making me wana go snowboarding....

[thedude]

annihilation

hey, is pelled something right for once

[Snow Wolf]

Yeah, sanity really lies in the middle ground...balance....our system is so damn polarized right now...the right has gone WAY right and the left has gone WAY left. I think most Americans basically are in the middle ground except for maybe the really wacked out extreme religeous right who want to take us back to the times of the Salem witch trials! Or the equally nutty extreme lefties who think we can just totally disarm and get rid of our military and everyone else will just be warm and fuzzy.
Unfortunately government is a neccessary evil to regulate and try to keep things equal....we`ve seen what unchecked corporatism has done (Enron, MCi etc) Also, government has real functions like the FAA....I sure would`nt want to fly on an airliner without strict FAA safety standards! Its just my opinion, but I think where real change could start would be totally doing away with lobbying and REAL campaign finance reform....make these politicians answerable to the people not to corporations and special interests. It seems that these days whether it`s a "D" or an "R", they are all money whores for sale to the highest bidder. We the People are having no real say anymore.

[Snow Wolf]

all this dabate is making me wana go snowboarding....

Dude! maybe you have the answer!!!! maybe if everyone of these politicians and world leaders all went snowboarding together, a lot of BS would be solved!

[CustomRider13]

Sadly this is becoming so true......its hard to tell a D from an R anymore....they are all corporate whores! I am a socialist-communist and do think that governmet has its place if it serves the populace that empowers it.
Aha! You admit it! I knew you had some commi in you. haha.

[CustomRider13]

Oh come now......don`t you realize that Bush is on a holy mission from God to force our version of Democracy upon the entire Middle East whether they want it or not, not to mention liberate them from those pesky natural resources.....LOL

But I do agree....I think national health care would be a great start!
Bush is not a good representation of a christian. I don't think the holy mission Bush is doing is from God. Democracy is alot better then what they were getting in Iraq and some of those other countries. Practically anything is better then what they were getting.

[Snow Wolf]

True, but I merely say that because it came from Bush`s own mouth. He claims to hear God talking to him and God tells him where to invade.....honestly, I could`nt make up something this rich! Here is one of hundreds of news reports quoting him saying this.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/1007-03.htm

Also, your goals are noble, but unfortunately, are not a reflection on our sad reality. The situation in Iraq is MUCH worse for the people of Iraq than before the invasion. Sure Saddam was a bastard killer, but our mishandling of occupying Iraq has made life there miserable for the people.

Now I want to make it clear that I support our troops and the valiant job they are trying to do...they are all brave heroes....it is the civilians at the top levels of our government I have a problem with.

Beofre the invasion, the country of Iraq had the best, most modern infrastructure in the middle east. There was electricity, health care, water, sewer, roads, trains, schools, food, shelter and the majority of the people were relatively secure and free to live their lives....no it was`nt our kind of freedom, but it is not our business to tamper with other cultures we disagree with. I think of the Prime Directive in Star Trek as an example. Anyway, our military did a spectacular job of winning the war and taking over the country. The problem is Bush Co. would not listen to his military Generals and Colin Powell who told him he would need three times the number of troops to occupy the country. He would not listen and many of the generals were demoted or forced into early retirement. This shortage of man power has led to the violence and total stalling out of our efforts. Couple that with the greed and coruption from KBR, Bechtell and Halliburton who are not rebuilding Iraqi assets, they are building 14 permanent military bases....Bush Co is lying to the world and the American people when he claims he wants to get the troops home as soon as possible.....we are going to be there for ever.

Here is a link to an independent Iraqi Journalist who blogs about daily life in Iraq under the US occupation. I must warn EVERYBODY who goes here and chooses to look at the pictures...they are VERY disturbing and HORRIFIC...they show the real ugly face of war......view with discretion....I mean it!!!

http://dahrjamailiraq.com/index.php

As always, good post and I welcome the debate with you......:)
and yes, you can call me "comrade" I freely proclaim it!

[username? tim?]

statements like these are why bush is in office right now.


lol that's the stupidist thing i've seen on here statements like that are why kerry isn't in office

one of thost if your not with us your against us sorta things

[DragonUSMC]

^Tim stop dragging up old threads! =P

[damiguanas]

no **** everybody knew that new orlenes would flood , sory if this is out of place i didnt read the whole post, but it kind of pissed me off, everyone should have known it would flood it is a city below sea level in a place where many hurricanes hit. with all the global warming making the storms bigger, im surprised it didnt flood earlyer.

[DragonUSMC]

^ you can actually do your own experiment with this...

1. Fill your bath tub
2. Take lage bowl that floats
3. Pretend that the tub water is "sea level"
4. Push bowl into the water until the edges are at or below "sea level".



yeah... i knew where the water was going...