Well that proves all you bush haters wrong

[Shelbycobra2008]

gas prices are on the rise. did we really go into iraq for oil? would the prices be going down if we did?
whats the average for the country like 3 bucks now?

[gerard]

I think its sick. Way too expensive, either get me better gas prices or get me another way to fuel my car. I am down for hydrogen!

[Shelbycobra2008]

oh yea hydrogen all the way. when can the whole public get their hands on these cars?

[kelly]

gas prices are on the rise. did we really go into iraq for oil? would the prices be going down if we did?
whats the average for the country like 3 bucks now?
You seem very confused about how the economy works, and what is going on in the middle east. Watch the news and read some books and get back to us.

[FTR_NICK]

You seem very confused about how the economy works, and what is going on in the middle east. Watch the news and read some books and get back to us.


kelly is my hero!

[nosnowhere]

Only 15 years old...dont yet know whats going on in the world...come talk to me when you can purchase cigarettes.

[RideTheory]

I want to let everyone know that i am working on a car that runs on methane gas....so now whenever you need to go somewhere...just go eat some mexican food wait about half hour and presto...full tank of gas....of course with that...the inflation on mexican food may go up like the gas prices...

[Snow Wolf]

^^^^^^
Hahaha...thats priceless!!!

[Snow Wolf]

gas prices are on the rise. did we really go into iraq for oil? would the prices be going down if we did?
whats the average for the country like 3 bucks now?

Unrest in the middle east of any kind causes speculation in the markets which drives the cost of oil per barrel up. Each day this week it has traded on the exchange at record prices. Oil was only a factor of our invasion of Iraq...has much more to do with global strategy and positioning for American dominance of the entire region and bolstering Isreal. Even if it were totally about oil and the plan was for cheap oil, Rumsfeld has so mismanaged the war, that the oil production is still badly disrupted from all the insurgent and sectarian violence. An attack on Iran will likely push oil prices up near $100 a barrel. Furthermore, there are many reports coming out of Congress that charge that the oil companies are artificially inflating prices by sitting on oil. In a report I heard last night, oil coming out of Iraq is currently not metered so we have no real way of accounting it.


PS my hatred for Bush runs much deeper than just the cost of oil!

[Shelbycobra2008]

ok so there are many reasons for the gas rise... i guess i was wrong

i just learned of another- they have to add ethanol? to the gas to make the emissions lower and the ethanol is what they are having trouble getting

[kelly]

I haven't heard the ethanol thing, but I'm glad to hear you're willing to learn about these topics :)

[Shelbycobra2008]

just as long as you dont say im wrong every other sentence ill be happy to listen

[User Name]

Yeah they have to replace a chemical, don’t remember the name, and replace it with ethanol because the chemical polluted ground water or something, too lazy to look it up. The change is taking place right now so that is also contributing to the prices.

As far as sitting on oil they can only refine so much of it and there is more oil on the world market than refining capacity. We need more refineries to drive prices down. OPEC said they would increase production but it won’t do any good because it can’t be refined any faster.

[MaXx_BoOsT]

i love bush! oh wait u guys r talking about something else! :faint2:

[IceCoastChick]

ok so there are many reasons for the gas rise... i guess i was wrong

i just learned of another- they have to add ethanol? to the gas to make the emissions lower and the ethanol is what they are having trouble getting

Are you talking about the whole E85 ethanol thing? Ethanol is produced (by plants) not obtained and is mixed with gas to produce E85(85% ethanol, 15%gasoline). It is overall less efficient but is more beneficial for the environment. Hope that helps you understand things.

[Snow Wolf]

Yeah they have to replace a chemical, don’t remember the name, and replace it with ethanol because the chemical polluted ground water or something, too lazy to look it up. The change is taking place right now so that is also contributing to the prices.

As far as sitting on oil they can only refine so much of it and there is more oil on the world market than refining capacity. We need more refineries to drive prices down. OPEC said they would increase production but it won’t do any good because it can’t be refined any faster.

Yeah its called MTBE and is really nasty stuff. Last refinery built in the U.S. was in 1976....I think its probably time to think about adding a few!

[RideTheory]

Im telling you...Methane is the new "Gas"....

[IceCoastChick]

Methane contributes to global warming, but there is less of it in the atmostphere than carbon dioxide.

[thedude]

i love bush! oh wait u guys r talking about something else! :faint2:
first thig that popped into my head was that damn Myspace Movie and that girl Yeti "you want to see the angry beaver!?!?!?" disturbing, lol (http://youtube.com/watch?v=AAh6WwKILfk&search=the%20myspace%20movie)

[phillyboy]

You seem very confused about how the economy works, and what is going on in the middle east. Watch the news and read some books and get back to us.
I'm just happy to see people thinking about the world around them. Whether they're right or wrong, at least it's a start. Rather than being sarcastic, perhaps you would've been better off giving a little light to the subject, as snow wolf did. We have people on this board that say things like "why should i vote, i don't care about politics. politics don't affect me." Those are the people who should be treated more hostile.

[kelly]

I wasn't being hostile, I was suggesting some research... why is it hostile to ask someone to look into a topic further? Although Snow Wolf did a nice job, I just felt like it wasn't a topic I could explain in a few paragraphs, but that he could find plenty of information on on the web.

[phillyboy]

I wasn't being hostile, I was suggesting some research... why is it hostile to ask someone to look into a topic further? Although Snow Wolf did a nice job, I just felt like it wasn't a topic I could explain in a few paragraphs, but that he could find plenty of information on on the web.
point is, it was done sarcastically. there's a better way to go about "suggesting" someone does more research. in my opinion your post did him no good, and in fact was probably counterproductive if anything. i know if someone is trying to get a point across to me and they just immediately come at me with sarcasm i turn them off. the tone of the way you just phrased it to me is much different than the tone of the way you phrased it to him.

[kelly]

it wasn't sarcastic, you just read it in a sarcastic voice. when I'm sarcastic, I use the winky smiley.

[phillyboy]

then if the winky smile denotes sarcasm you were just being a prick.

[kelly]

Now you're reading it in a prick voice. I said it in a kind and concerned voice.

[thedude]

prick
hahaha, you said prick... sorry, i'm tired

[phillyboy]

Now you're reading it in a prick voice. I said it in a kind and concerned voice.
that sounds like a liar voice. i'll take you to task on that.

[alexwithad3]

You seem very confused about how the economy works, and what is going on in the middle east. Watch the news and read some books and get back to us.
OWNED!!!!!!!:argue:

[phillyboy]

OWNED!!!!!!!:argue:
Good point. Thanks for your input on the topic of oil/gas/the war in Iraq. Personally, I think anything we do at this point: war, alternative fuels, etc. will be too little too late. The only real solution is to start building a society NOT based on oil. Anthropologically speaking, societies are built in relation to their available energy sources, and if you don't want a surprise change to your lifestyle, there's going to be a need for some figuring out of which energy source will be our basis. Oil has allowed us to spread all over the place and still have energy be readily available. But when that goes away, the suburbanites, for instance, are pretty much stuck where they are. They'll be walking their asses down Rt. 202 to Sprawl-Mart for food. Then they'll pay an arm and a leg cause oh yeah, food takes oil to process and transport - and that cost is sure as hell going to be paid by you, the consumer.
Statistics show that as oil prices rise, people eat less. Our society is so addicted to oil that we will give up FOOD before we drive less. Granted the US eats too much as well. But seriously, what kind of mentality is that?
Anyway, the answer as I'll say over and over again is walkable communities. And a defined difference between city living and country living (i.e. farming). None of this suburb crap.
But yeah, thanks for your insightful contribution.

[kelly]

if rising oil prices cause people to eat less... that might actually be good for a bit.. isn't there an obesity problem? ;)

[phillyboy]

if rising oil prices cause people to eat less... that might actually be good for a bit.. isn't there an obesity problem? ;)
It's not the issue of eating less that's the problem, as most Americans could surely skip a meal here and there. It's the mentality.

[User Name]

There is definitely a weight problem in America but I don’t think its as bad as the statistics show. We use the BMI which only uses height and weight. Tom Cruise, Mel Gibson, The Rock and Sylvester Stallone are all considered obese. Tom Brady, George Clooney, Matt Damon, Johnny Depp, Vin Diesel, Ethan Hawke, Hugh Jackman, Lebron James, Will Smith and many others are considered overweight. Something seems wrong with that to me but this isn't the topic of this thread.

Since there was some talk earlier in the thread about this I have always found this web page beneficial when debating someone.

http://www.truthtree.com/debates.shtml (http://www.truthtree.com/debates.shtml)

[kelly]

I think maybe you need to give that link to that Omoore61 guy.

[User Name]

I think maybe you need to give that link to that Omoore61 guy.

I thought that when I was reading the global warming thread.

[RideTheory]

if rising oil prices cause people to eat less... that might actually be good for a bit.. isn't there an obesity problem? ;)
yea i know, i used to be a fat ass...but since oil pricess have gone up i cant afford to drive my bigg fat ass to Taco bell so im forced to walk there instead...now i weigh 160 lbs...its kinda like the Jerad subway diet only in reverse....thank you big oil company's....because of you i can fit into one pair of jeans as opposed to 2 (one pair for each leg)...that is all for now

[kelly]

Are you sure it's not just the gastronomical difficulties from eating all that Taco Bell that caused you to lose weight? ;)

[parkgirl]

yeah it's bull****...it's up to like $3.25 in san fran.

[RideTheory]

Are you sure it's not just the gastronomical difficulties from eating all that Taco Bell that caused you to lose weight? ;)
well at first i thought that might be it...but i had to walk to McDonalds, Wendys, Carls Junior and to the bathroom as well so i think it was more of the walking thing than anything else...my gastronomic difficulties helped out to....oh and on a related note...i now use Veg. Oil to power my car...so when i drive i smell like McDonalds all day long and it helps me not want to eat that

[omoore61]

I think maybe you need to give that link to that Omoore61 guy.

wow you really dont give up, very unprofessional for a mod i might add. Im suprised you're not aware of ethanol as big of an environmentalist as you seem to be, heres some enlightenment anyways

http://www.slate.com/id/2122961/

[RideTheory]

wow you really dont give up, very unprofessional for a mod i might add. Im suprised you're not aware of ethanol as big of an environmentalist as you seem to be, heres some enlightenment anyways

http://www.slate.com/id/2122961/
ooooOOOooOOO..i Smell a posting war!!!!!!!....just be carefull cuz kelly is a really good speeller;-) i kid i kid

[kelly]

wow you really dont give up, very unprofessional for a mod i might add. Im suprised you're not aware of ethanol as big of an environmentalist as you seem to be, heres some enlightenment anyways

http://www.slate.com/id/2122961/
I think I was saying I wasn't aware of the problem of ethanol as an additive and its effects on gas prices...

I apologize if you felt that post was "unprofessional" although I don't really see this as a professional position... I just thought you could benefit from an explanation of debate techniques so that you would stop calling people morons, which i wasn't finding too helpful.

[Shelbycobra2008]

ooooOOOooOOO..i Smell a posting war!!!!!!!....just be carefull cuz kelly is a really good speeller;-) i kid i kid

yea me too! haha. omoore is a big fighter but kelly is always right. niether will back down. whos gunna win?

[kelly]

kelly is always right.
Therein lies your answer ;)
Nah, I'm not gonna fight with him anymore... it just leads to trouble.

[theRide]

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

[Shelbycobra2008]

^im too lazy to read all that. please summarize

[Corkscrewed]

I haven't heard the ethanol thing, but I'm glad to hear you're willing to learn about these topics :)

Yeah...the kid's right. One of the factors in the pricing of gas is the ethanol content. Different states have different emmissions standards, so the gasoline being distributed from the refineries, must be mixed differently according to its final destination. However, the Bush administration could make it a little easier on our pockets by picking the state with the highest emmissions testing standards, and making that the nation-wide standard. That way the refineries only have to make 1 mixture of gas for everyone! But hey what do we know? By the way...if i ever run for President (or King of America as i call it) i expect everyone on this site to vote for me regardless of their political affiliation!

[ToSt]

I disagree with that.. bush is a puppet....

[shank]

I want to let everyone know that i am working on a car that runs on methane gas....so now whenever you need to go somewhere...just go eat some mexican food wait about half hour and presto...full tank of gas....of course with that...the inflation on mexican food may go up like the gas prices...
There has actually been talk about using cows as a source of methane for fuel...

[shank]

Really when it comes down to it... We can have all kinds of alternative fuels out right now... but there is too much money held by big corporations.

Its disgusting... We could have cars right now that would last 50 years... and be getting 100 miles a gallon... except big business buys up and copyrights anything that would benefit us, and locks it away. They make cars so that you will need to buy another one... Everything is made to break down... Its good for the economy.

Just to give you a bit of an idea... right now, we have cars that are getting worse gas milage than the original model T.

[Snow Wolf]

If you have`nt already....check out the thread in the TV/Movie area about "Who killed the Electric Car?" It talks about the very things you brought up....I agree by the way!

[shank]

If you have`nt already....check out the thread in the TV/Movie area about "Who killed the Electric Car?" It talks about the very things you brought up....I agree by the way!
Great, thanks... Ill check it out :)

[instigator1225]

my car gets 8 mpg... on a good day.... and at 3 dolalrs + per gallon wooohooo

[ADRsk8boarder]

ok guys lead used to be added to gasoline, it polluted and therefor is not used. They added ethonal to make it run smoother. ethonal makes up 10 to 15% of the actuall gas we buy ... no, i think gmc, is makin an 85% thonal and 15% gas mixture. It is made form corn so it is renewable and also runs smoother then regualr gas and is cheaper. buy E85, run on bio desiel, or get a hybrid

[Grill]

The problem with E85 is that no only does it only produces 2/3 the energy of gasoline, but less than 2% of the cars on the road are equiped to handle it. Couple that with the lack of fillinf stations outside the midwest and a hybrid looks like a much better proposistion.

[Snow Wolf]

I hear that Brazil is almost 100% on Ethanol fuel...what exactly needs to be done for a conventional engine for it to run properly on 100% Ethanol? Any mechanic types out there know?

[thedude]

I hear that Brazil is almost 100% on Ethanol fuel...what exactly needs to be done for a conventional engine for it to run properly on 100% Ethanol? Any mechanic types out there know?

ethanol combusts at higher temps than standard gas does, so the engine will most likely have to run spark plugs that ignite with a greater charge. to be able to run on 100% E85, the wear and tear on an engine is going to be very high, the metal is going to get all warped and shti form the higher temps, so one of the most common replacemetns that will happen to the engines will be the heads, gaskets, seals, and bearings will need to be replaced much more frequent. but, if metals with a greater heat resistance are used, the problems will eb about the same as a regualr engine runnign on gasoline. onyl problem wiht using these metals is the price of the autos will go up, since the metals are not cheap to manufacture. so, the facories where the molds for the engin blocks are poured, or possibly CNC'ed, will have to use different machines to cope with the tinsle strength and heat resistance of each metal. it'll cost the consumer more to run a car on E85 than it wold a car based on Hydrogen.

i actually have a news clip on my comp i can try to upload into the site and post the link. this guy made a blow tourch using water. the tip of the flames nozzle stays cool, btu the tip gets even warmer than a standard blow tourch, and he even has hsi car riged to run as a water/gasolien hybrid, and the guy hopes ot make it run purly on water soon. really interestign stuff

[thedude]

mm'k, here it is
http://snowboardaddicts.com/gallery/misc.php?do=downloadfile&i=2419

[Snow Wolf]

That is freakin amazing! thanks for posting that....so the Ethanol problem is simply a combustion temperature issue? Wonder if you added something to it like vegetable oil or some other compund if that would add lubricant to rings and valves and make it burn cooler to solve that issue?

[ADRsk8boarder]

i heard that u can go between e85 and regular gas cas they have thes special cars that can run both, but with a reg car im not sure, but i dontthink its a mojor modification

[TheReverend]

befriend a mechanic/ date a mechanic's son/daughter and get the deisel hookups and ride on vegetable oil, you can get it for free from any asian food restaurant.

this is presuming you have a deisel engine to start with of course haha.

[jonnygee]

there was a torch like that in a shop i was working at a while back... pretty nuts

[ADRsk8boarder]

ride the good ole fashion amish way... horse and buggie..... or go mormon, makes me shake whenever i say that please take no offense, go by bike

[rosstheboss2009]

oil companies make like 50 billion a year, now thats sik

[shank]

oil companies make like 50 billion a year, now thats sik
Hmmm.... thats almost as much as I make...

[Dirtyjerseyboarder]

Im not really sure why everyone complains about gas prices in America snowboarder magizine had an issue last year sometime with a large article about how much gas is in other countries. Norways was something like 7.50 a gallon and the article noted that other then like 2 other countries we have the lowerst gas prices in the world.

[shank]

In Norway they also pay around $1200 for a license if I remember right. I believe they focus on mass transit and if you own a car, its gonna cost yah.

[DragonUSMC]

having the ability to understand how an inelastic product works in an economic structure also helps. =D

[shank]

some one was saying something about switching to e85... you have to get a totally different engine pretty much

I heard there is a chip that you can put into your car to make it run e85. It is illegal though because of "emissions".
japaneese people might not be as original in the car area but they take what we make and reverse engineer the s*** out of it

I thought it was us trying to catch up to the japanese... Aren't they like way ahead of us in the car industry? I know we cant sell cars in a few places because we dont meet emissions standards. We have some of the lowest emissions standards in the world and we are still struggling to meet them. eh?

[DragonUSMC]

^actually its opposite. We have some of the HIGHEST standards for emissions, which is why alot of the cars have to be revamped when they come over to the states from other countries.

Difference is that in Japan they have 2 cylinder engines, and even some single cylinder engine cars, that run for days and days on a gallon of gas. Here in the states the smallest production engine available was a tiny 3 cylinder.

As for Chipping your ECU to make your car run on e85 is a lie. Its not that simple at all. Thats like saying if i change my spark plugs I'll have better handling in the corners.

[shank]

^actually its opposite. We have some of the HIGHEST standards for emissions, which is why alot of the cars have to be revamped when they come over to the states from other countries.
Who exports Autos out to China? I heard we werent allowed in there due to emissions and the whole Communism factor. lol.

I was looking at our GDP compared to emissions and we were coming up like around 70th or further. A lot of the European countries were ahead of us as well as Asian countries. While that may not show that our fuel emissions stats, it does show that there is still a lot of fat that we can cut. I guess you would have to also take into account what the exports are for any given country.

As for Chipping your ECU to make your car run on e85 is a lie. Its not that simple at all. Thats like saying if i change my spark plugs I'll have better handling in the corners. I realize that it is not as simple as that. It would only work on some of the newer cars. Also, I only know about it because some of my family members were thinking about starting up a co-op to produce the fuel. You are allowed to make it yourself, the only rules are that you cant sell it, and you have to put a poison in it so it is undrinkable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85

I guess all the chip does is make the engine run at a different rate. E85 burns cooler I was hearing? So that is where the trouble is for your vehicle, so you need to have something to regulate the engine according so. This is at least what I have heard. I am not a big gear head, just around a lot of them.

Check out that wikipedia link. It is quite interesting. They have a ton of info in there... even about after market additions.

[DragonUSMC]

Who exports Autos out to China? I heard we werent allowed in there due to emissions and the whole Communism factor. lol.

I was looking at our GDP compared to emissions and we were coming up like around 70th or further. A lot of the European countries were ahead of us as well as Asian countries. While that may not show that our fuel emissions stats, it does show that there is still a lot of fat that we can cut. I guess you would have to also take into account what the exports are for any given country.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85

I guess all the chip does is make the engine run at a different rate. E85 burns cooler I was hearing? So that is where the trouble is for your vehicle, so you need to have something to regulate the engine according so. This is at least what I have heard. I am not a big gear head, just around a lot of them.



The biggest thing with emissions is that there is no "standard" thoughout the US... like in Iowa, I pretty much dont have to worry about a thing for emissions or regulations. We dont have / enforce any of them. Other things come into persepective though. For example the glass used in japanese cars is real glass like you find in your house. So in an accident they turn to death shards. We use a thicker frame system in the US then most other countries. And partly we are so low on that report you speak of is the fact that unlike the rest of the world, the vast percentage of cars are 4-8 cyclinder compared to the rest of the world using more efficient / less horsepower smaller ones.

I still dont think that a simple chipping would do it... I think your right that it does burn cooler, and in that case produces differenet compresson / spark ratios. Different value / cam systems, filters, injectors, spark plugs, OBD sensors, MAF sensors, O2 senors, etc. would be needed to make it run right. So in a sense all the sensors could be changed by re-mapping and chipping the ECU. But there would be some other big mechanical components that would have to be changed also.

I do find it oddly funny that they have to put a poison into the E85 fuel... i didnt think people would be that dumb that somthing like that would have to be done... but if they made a rule to make it that way, then some idiot must have been drinking it... =D

[shank]

I do find it oddly funny that they have to put a poison into the E85 fuel... i didnt think people would be that dumb that somthing like that would have to be done... but if they made a rule to make it that way, then some idiot must have been drinking it... =D
lol, the reason why is you can make moonshine out of it. The plain alcohol without the 15 percent gasoline addition that is...

"one for you, one for me" - like Homer off of the Simpsons. But I believe his dream was the car being powered by Duff...

[DragonUSMC]

^ha yeah i remember that one...

damn moonshiners... reminds me of when my buddy's dad was telling us about the story of the drunk who got kicked out of the bar and went to Walgreens and started drinking all the scope mouthwash insted... weird weird people...

[shank]

I guess a lot of kids go robotrippin. I forget what is in robotussin, but you have to drink a bunch of it and I guess it does something pretty crazy to yah. I remember these kids were so screwed up on it I think... it was that or something else... I cant remember, but I think it was robotussin.

The one kid jumped off of the 2nd floor of the apartment building, climbed a vent tower and pulled a 200 lb grate down onto himself. Hes like "my ankle hurts, I think it is sprained" he broke the thing, lol.

Whatever it was they were saying that they feel like giants and they really loved to roll in the grass.

ahhh.... it was funny... I have it all on video tape.

[DragonUSMC]

^post this on youtube!! lol i cant wait!

[shank]

lol, Ill have to convert all of the footage and find the tapes... I hope they didnt get copied over.

I also have footage of a dodgeball tournament I was in... hehe. that was fun too. Our team probably looked hilarious. we had 2 goth kids, a couple nerds(me included), a couple punks, and a kid in jeans and workboots and sporting a pony tail(The one and only Randy Thrasher).

ahh yes... the "Cawledge Droppouts". cant remember how we spelled it.

We got demolished lol. I dont think some of my teammates understood strategy too well... much to my dismay.

[damiguanas]

this is so wierd this post started as that dude bitching at us bush haters cause the war didnt lower ethe gas prices, wich anyone could have told you was going to happen from the star. but now the post is about swithching cars to run on ethanol. stay foccused people.

[DragonUSMC]

I don’t see how the correlation between alternative fuels, which was part of the original argument, is not relative many posts later. Your also speaking about a thread started in April. Maybe some insight and quoting of earlier posts to direct this thread into a new direction should be your choice rather then trying to interrupt the current debate.

[damiguanas]

im sorry next time i wont inturupt your debate

[Dirtyjerseyboarder]

This was known about for a while but wasn't counted in the oil reservoirs because it wasn't being developed commercially

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600125803,00.html

[musicandsnowboarding]

this isnt exactly on-topic but its close enough.

gas here this summer in portland was around [reg] $3.09
now its down. its about $2.89 on average

[username? tim?]

it dropped below two buck in tehas... but we have oil that doesn't have to go as far... maybe we should all move to the middle east and that would lower gas prices (not supporting that idea at all but it would work)

[rosstheboss2009]

this isnt exactly on-topic but its close enough.

gas here this summer in portland was around [reg] $3.09
now its down. its about $2.89 on average
in michigan gas is 2.00 - 2.10

[ADRsk8boarder]

no were not allowed to export cars to china cause american made cars are crap and no one would be one... thats why toyota and honda are pushing gmc and ford to bankruptcy

[username? tim?]

but the workman ship in america is better sometimes but the designs from japan are better so... i think that's part of the reason toyota has factories here now cause american steel is bad ass

[DragonUSMC]

it dropped below two buck in tehas... but we have oil that doesn't have to go as far... maybe we should all move to the middle east and that would lower gas prices (not supporting that idea at all but it would work)

true, gas in Iraq and most of those countries is free...

[shank]

I guess there is also an additive that is put in during summer months to save the ozone. So that is also why prices are coming way down.

It is around $2.12 - $2.25 here.

If anyone hasnt heard...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060927/ap_on_bi_ge/7_eleven_citgo

[shank]

but the workman ship in america is better sometimes but the designs from japan are better so... i think that's part of the reason toyota has factories here now cause american steel is bad ass
I actually thought they put some factories here just to sell more cars and get a foothold for distribution. I would think it would be cheaper to build them onsite instead of shipping over seas also. I bet I am wrong though.

Didn't all of our steel industry go out to Japan?

But yah, the USofA has some kinda crappy car designs. I never understood why all cars cant look sweet. They just have it that way so you strive for their more expensive models. The paneling would be easy enough for them to press out a few more curves or a little bit more form.

(Sorry for the double post)

[Sledder20]

The thing about GMC and Ford. Yes Ford is dropping fast, but GMC is still number one for sales in the Uniteds States. They have a new CEO who is helping them get out of their problems. All of their plant layoffs were negotiated. The CEO talked to the union reps. of the plants that were laid off. For is number three in sales and Toyota is number two. GMC is on the rise again. Due to the help of the their new CEO, the very reason he was put into this position.

Also, Toyota, Nissan, Subuaru, and other foreign cars are produced and assembled in the United States, with America steel.

Gas prices in N.W. Indiana $2.00-2.20/gallon

[username? tim?]

lol i bet gm (did you mean gm or gmc?) is on the rise because of pontiac... the new ones look sweet lol
but it's more about the inside of them dodges tend to have sqeaky breaks and and fords and dodges have trasmissions and differentials go out more often
toyota pickups are tough as sh** though (there was a show on discovery channel where they drove one into a lake then dragged it out and it just started right back up) but they can't tow as much so...
and i think they are actually putting stuff into the gas to make it cleaner for the winter because people have more fires to keep warm so there is more CO2 from all the extra heating that people do in the winter

[Sledder20]

My bad I did mean GM.

[rosstheboss2009]

lol i bet gm (did you mean gm or gmc?) is on the rise because of pontiac... umm you know gmc is part of gm, gm doesnt make cars they make car parts

[username? tim?]

yeah i know gmc is PART gm that's why i asked if he meant just gmc or all of gm... chevy is part of gm too so is saturn that's why a lot of their cars look the same
i was asking because i don't see many gmc vehicles on the street(probably because gmc only makes pickups suv's and vans which people haven't been buying as much anymore)... i do however see a whole lot of chevy's saturns and pontiacs and the new pontiacs are pretty popular which would also be boosting GMs sales

[ADRsk8boarder]

subarus are the coolest with toyotas

[username? tim?]

yeah but toyota has the best commercials... they don't even say anything about the vehicle or why you should buy it

[Sledder20]

Thanks for the back up username?time? You knew what I was getting at. Just a simple typing error.

[username? tim?]

Thanks for the back up username?time? You knew what I was getting at. Just a simple typing error.


yeah like the extra e you put in my display name lol jk

[Andres]

GMC is gm's upperclass truck division... a 3500 Silverado is less than a 3500 Sierra... it is the same reason you see less Audis than VWs

[snowboarding_bear]

gas here in ugly as heck daytona beach is...2.29$ a gallon...n droppin faster n faster...wicked wierd..cuz idk...2-3 weeks ago it was about 3.16$

[Andres]

no were not allowed to export cars to china cause american made cars are crap and no one would be one... thats why toyota and honda are pushing gmc and ford to bankruptcy


that is the funniest **** i have heard today.... if there really is an embargo on american cars in china, it is probably because they are a communist society and therefor they recieve vouchers for cars and everybody drives the same ****ing thing... plus they all ride bikes and for the most part american cars have been traditionally larger vehicals which would be bad in an area where every one rides bikes....

it could also be similar to our embargo on cuba where we just dont want to support their economy...

China and America are direct competators for the middle eastern oil...

[Board-Norway]

oh yea hydrogen all the way. when can the whole public get their hands on these cars?

BMW is the first car manufacturer to come out with a production hydrogen car, scheduled for late next year. The car can run on conventional gas, but with a flip of a switch, convert to hydrogen when the means of distributing it become more readily available.

I think honda isnt too far behind.

[shank]

well hot damn! great info. I will have to check all of that out.

Cmpletely unrelated...but did you hear that they have the technology and some testing for flying cars now? Thats at least what I heard. The military would probably see the technology first though... so I dont know how true the rumor can be.

[Grill]

BMW is the first car manufacturer to come out with a production hydrogen car, scheduled for late next year. The car can run on conventional gas, but with a flip of a switch, convert to hydrogen when the means of distributing it become more readily available.

I think honda isnt too far behind.

Honda FCX has been available for years...

[username? tim?]

well hot damn! great info. I will have to check all of that out.

Cmpletely unrelated...but did you hear that they have the technology and some testing for flying cars now? Thats at least what I heard. The military would probably see the technology first though... so I dont know how true the rumor can be.

they have had flying cars before but no one bought them cause they weren't too good because the car part would have to be super light to be able to fly and therefore really dangerous in crashes... so if they have figured a way to make i falying car it should be some pretty cool stuff but hydrogen cars still have little to no place to refuel most places...

[Andres]

I think it is funny how everyone thinks that hydrogen cars are such a great idea... they save the environment lol... cars use a small percentage of our petroleum... Now if we had Hydrogen powerplants, that would be cool...

plus... has anyone heard of the LZ 129 Hindenburg Zeppelin?

There is a reason they fill blimps with helium now.....

[DragonUSMC]

^yeah but the Hydrogen fuel is a complete different monster then the strait Hydrogen gas used in the Hindenburg.... Although it would be really cool if every car crash involved a firey inferno. =)

[shank]

^yeah but the Hydrogen fuel is a complete different monster then the strait Hydrogen gas used in the Hindenburg.... Although it would be really cool if every car crash involved a firey inferno. =)
heheh... oh my. That would really give You Gotta See This and all those other TV shows a bunch of content to work with.

If that was the case... they would have to put hydrogen into Nascar. Then I would watch...

:shock:
like this.

[DragonUSMC]

^LMAO... I was thinking the same thing... if they used this... I would finally watch NASCAR.

[phillyguerrilla]

Unrest in the middle east of any kind causes speculation in the markets which drives the cost of oil per barrel up. Each day this week it has traded on the exchange at record prices. Oil was only a factor of our invasion of Iraq...has much more to do with global strategy and positioning for American dominance of the entire region and bolstering Isreal. Even if it were totally about oil and the plan was for cheap oil, Rumsfeld has so mismanaged the war, that the oil production is still badly disrupted from all the insurgent and sectarian violence. An attack on Iran will likely push oil prices up near $100 a barrel. Furthermore, there are many reports coming out of Congress that charge that the oil companies are artificially inflating prices by sitting on oil. In a report I heard last night, oil coming out of Iraq is currently not metered so we have no real way of accounting it.


PS my hatred for Bush runs much deeper than just the cost of oil!
:amen: its like you jumped in my head and ripped out my thoughts

[username? tim?]

I think it is funny how everyone thinks that hydrogen cars are such a great idea... they save the environment lol... cars use a small percentage of our petroleum... Now if we had Hydrogen powerplants, that would be cool...

plus... has anyone heard of the LZ 129 Hindenburg Zeppelin?

There is a reason they fill blimps with helium now.....

i think it's more because in theory hydrogen cars will emit only water as exhaust and that will cut back a lot on smog and the like

i think you need to go read up on the hindenburg... most people died from panicing and jumping... and not that many of them died anyway

hydrogen was used because it is lighter than air... therefore it always rises... therefore if it catches on fire it rises and burns in the air and isn't that dangerous in a fire... but it looks scary so people panic and do stupid things like jump out of airships and die

but other than that hydrogen costs a lot to produce and it takes a lot of electricity to make and they burn coal or oil for electricity...
it'll be a long time before it's efficient enough to use
i think our best bet would be to keep pouring money into it cause it's a good idea but drive a lot less now and use alternatives where ever possible

[Andres]

i think it's more because in theory hydrogen cars will emit only water as exhaust and that will cut back a lot on smog and the like

i think you need to go read up on the hindenburg... most people died from panicing and jumping... and not that many of them died anyway

hydrogen was used because it is lighter than air... therefore it always rises... therefore if it catches on fire it rises and burns in the air and isn't that dangerous in a fire... but it looks scary so people panic and do stupid things like jump out of airships and die

but other than that hydrogen costs a lot to produce and it takes a lot of electricity to make and they burn coal or oil for electricity...
it'll be a long time before it's efficient enough to use
i think our best bet would be to keep pouring money into it cause it's a good idea but drive a lot less now and use alternatives where ever possible


I am aware that the majority of the people who died in that crash died from trying to escape, however when you are at ground level, you cant just ride it out like a blimp... you will be stuck in your car/BBQ and you probably wont survive...

lol it is good to know that the gas is different but that would make driving much more fun...

i acctually think we could use those principals to our advantage... people would be safer drivers knowing that they will explode if they crash. there would acctually be less deaths



people should use a lot more propane... better for the environment, quieter, and it is very powerful... any body who has driven a forklift knows what i mean

[DragonUSMC]

just kinda off topic... my next daily driver is going to be a hybrid. I'll always have my turbo'ed gas guzzelers. But if people dont by these things, we'll stay on this same track.

[ADRsk8boarder]

i meant that why the **** would they buy american peices of crap

[West]

Don't know if it was mentioned, but the only reason gas prices are down is because the election is nearing.

DUH, some people will be all "Oh, George Bush MUST be doing a good job, lets get another idiot in office!"

It's incredible how easily people are persuaded.

[username? tim?]

they would buy american pieces of crap becuase american pieces of crap have a crap load of muscle
i mean in a drag race there is no compitition to an american muscle car
import tuners are fast because they have more technology and aerodynamics than bill gates poo poo

[Andres]

they would buy american pieces of crap becuase american pieces of crap have a crap load of muscle
i mean in a drag race there is no compitition to an american muscle car
import tuners are fast because they have more technology and aerodynamics than bill gates poo poo

And that is stupid... all they are are "tuners"... people put just as much money into them to "tune" as if they just bought a Z06... it would look better and still go faster



Don't know if it was mentioned, but the only reason gas prices are down is because the election is nearing.

DUH, some people will be all "Oh, George Bush MUST be doing a good job, lets get another idiot in office!"

It's incredible how easily people are persuaded.


Isnt it? like how easily people are persuaded by the liberal media to direct all of their anger toward the president as if we live in a dictatorship and he is the only person that matters? Like Congress doesnt exist? Like the media knows it is easier to have 1 or 2 scapegoats in the whitehouse because they know they cant take on the 230+ people in the house and the 50+ people in the senate?

Especialy those who will be of voting age by next election? you think it is a coincidence that the majority of teens have liberal views? some people dont think that the "totally objective" news would ever support a bias to fufill a special interest or personal agenda... they would never EVER direct that opinion on the easily molded teen mind, EVER!

lololol right...

take everything you hear with a grain of salt... after extensive research you believe Bush is the worst thing since sliced bread and the fact that there is a GOP majority in Congress AND the white house has nothing to do with anything, come back and repost

look up unitary

im not supporting left or right at all here, i am supporting democracy which requires the education of the public... remember, checks and balences only work when they want to

[NCC-1701]

Don't know if it was mentioned, but the only reason gas prices are down is because the election is nearing.

DUH, some people will be all "Oh, George Bush MUST be doing a good job, lets get another idiot in office!"

It's incredible how easily people are persuaded.

I understand where you are coming from on this, but I don`t think it is that simple. Niether shrub nor anybody in government can directly effect market prices of crude oil nor tell refiners what to set rack prices at......BUT, and here is where I agree with you on possibly why gas prices are dropping right now, Oil refiners can easily manipulate the consumer prices of refined gasolines and diesel fuel. We see this when refineries shut down for maintenance or there is a leak in a pipeline etc. Okay, so they can; now the question to ask would be WHY? Just about everyone knows and business people will adamantly agree, that Republican lawmakers have policies on taxation, labor, environmental regulation and trade that favors corpoartions and businesses over Democratic policies. With our nation so divided and the very real threat of the Republicans loosing their majority control over the Senate and possibly House of Representatives as well, I think these companies have a major interest in seeing that does not happen. Additionally, their stockholders have a huge vested interest in seeing that the Democrats do not regain control of Congress as Republican policies are more favorable to those who make their money through dividends and investments than Democratic policies. So Yeah absolutely these gas prices reflect the upcoming election; it just that it is`nt Shrub doing it...besides I think he is too dumb to even get any of this anyway....LOL

[Andres]

I understand where you are coming from on this, but I don`t think it is that simple. Niether shrub nor anybody in government can directly effect market prices of crude oil nor tell refiners what to set rack prices at......BUT, and here is where I agree with you on possibly why gas prices are dropping right now, Oil refiners can easily manipulate the consumer prices of refined gasolines and diesel fuel. We see this when refineries shut down for maintenance or there is a leak in a pipeline etc. Okay, so they can; now the question to ask would be WHY? Just about everyone knows and business people will adamantly agree, that Republican lawmakers have policies on taxation, labor, environmental regulation and trade that favors corpoartions and businesses over Democratic policies. With our nation so divided and the very real threat of the Republicans loosing their majority control over the Senate and possibly House of Representatives as well, I think these companies have a major interest in seeing that does not happen. Additionally, their stockholders have a huge vested interest in seeing that the Democrats do not regain control of Congress as Republican policies are more favorable to those who make their money through dividends and investments than Democratic policies. So Yeah absolutely these gas prices reflect the upcoming election; it just that it is`nt Shrub doing it...besides I think he is too dumb to even get any of this anyway....LOL




I think a lot of people dont realize this and criticize the system while they hold ExxonMobile stock.

I want that **** to go up, lol... it may not counter the prices i pay at the pump, but those always fluctuate and people never consider inflation and average income or price of living and that ****...

people pay around 20% tax on gas... conservatives usually like lowering taxes which would lower gas prices... i would like to know what the profit margine on a gallon of gas is... they have to make their money in volume, not mark up

[ADRsk8boarder]

And that is stupid... all they are are "tuners"... people put just as much money into them to "tune" as if they just bought a Z06... it would look better and still go faster


yea cept the new z06 are crap on reliabililty an asians drift not race and therefor need a rear wheel drive car and the only american car ive seen drift against an asian made car is the ford mustang, yet the driver was an american haha

[username? tim?]

yea cept the new z06 are crap on reliabililty an asians drift not race and therefor need a rear wheel drive car and the only american car ive seen drift against an asian made car is the ford mustang, yet the driver was an american haha

which is strange when you think about it cause most asian cars are front wheel drive

[Sledder20]

^^^
Good point username? tim?!!!

So, ADRsk8boarder, you are telling me that ZO6's are crap? Do you not read reviews by magazines like Motor Trend. They love the ZO6. They aren't made for driffting. They are made for kicking your a** on the drag strip and track racing. Who cares about drift? I'd rather go to a track with some balls then watch tuners drift. I am partial to GM, I won't lie. I have a Chevy S-10 and I love it. I'm very happy with my American made car.

[steezeball]

people who complain about bush are annoying as ****.. actually everyone who complains is.. so dont.

[Andres]

yea cept the new z06 are crap on reliabililty an asians drift not race and therefor need a rear wheel drive car and the only american car ive seen drift against an asian made car is the ford mustang, yet the driver was an american haha


are u ****ting me... the GTO was ****ing people up in japan

[username? tim?]

idk i like watching rally races more than drifting...
and the italian races... those drivers are freaking crazy

[rosstheboss2009]

people who complain about bush are dumb, any president would do the same thing in that situation so shut the fck up

[steezeball]

god damn ross you are the boss..

[Andres]

people who complain about any president need to rethink their whining... No matter who is in office, people will find a reason to complain... who cares they are only there for 4 years, 8 at the most

[ADRsk8boarder]

^^^
Good point username? tim?!!!

So, ADRsk8boarder, you are telling me that ZO6's are crap? Do you not read reviews by magazines like Motor Trend. They love the ZO6. They aren't made for driffting. They are made for kicking your a** on the drag strip and track racing. Who cares about drift? I'd rather go to a track with some balls then watch tuners drift. I am partial to GM, I won't lie. I have a Chevy S-10 and I love it. I'm very happy with my American made car.

yes my uncle has a z06 and yes i did say they were crap for drifting but for ****in speed no .. please read threads carefully before makin urself look like a douche

[ADRsk8boarder]

people who complain about any president need to rethink their whining... No matter who is in office, people will find a reason to complain... who cares they are only there for 4 years, 8 at the most

not complain!!!!!!!!! look at how much bush ****ed up on his first term let alone his second

[Andres]

yes my uncle has a z06 and yes i did say they were crap for drifting but for ****in speed no .. please read threads carefully before makin urself look like a douche

how can a 500hp RWD car suck at drifting when all it is is controled burning out and power sliding?

[Andres]

not complain!!!!!!!!! look at how much bush ****ed up on his first term let alone his second


2 things...

first...

how do you know he fcuked up? who are you comparing him to?

second...

why do you think HE fcuked up? do you not realize that he is not the only person making decisions? have you heard of the legislative branch?

[ADRsk8boarder]

drift cars are rear wheel drive passenger cars that have a light to medium weight.. the only american cars that are used to drift are the mustang and the viper and gto.. aslo max power oulet has nothing to do with drifting but linear response is much greater a need... seeing ur lack of knowledge of the sport or even the occasional viewing of a comp on the speed channel please stop ur useless bickering

[ADRsk8boarder]

2 things...

first...

how do you know he fcuked up? who are you comparing him to?

second...

why do you think HE fcuked up? do you not realize that he is not the only person making decisions? have you heard of the legislative branch?

ok we had a surplus a god damn ****in SURPLUS when clinton left office, now we have a ginormus defiect.. fighting a war we should not be in WHERE THE HELL IS OSAMA BIN LADEN THE REASON FOR 9/11 AND WHY THE **** DID WE RAID IRAQ WHEN IF WE REALLY WANTED TO SAVE A THREATENING COUNTRY WITH A DICTATOR WHY DIDNT WE GO TO NORTH KOREA WHERE THE HAVE ****IN NUKES... I AM COMPARING HIM TO THE CLINTON WHO WAS A GREAT LEADER AND THE ONLY THING THAT RUINED HIS IMAGE WAS THE ORAL SEX.. OTHER THEN THAT HE WOULD OF BEEN A TEDDY ROSEVELT WHO WAS THE LAST GREAT REPUBLICAN.. HAVE U HEARD OF THE CABINENT?

[username? tim?]

ok we had a surplus a god damn ****in SURPLUS when clinton left office, now we have a ginormus defiect.. fighting a war we should not be in WHERE THE HELL IS OSAMA BIN LADEN THE REASON FOR 9/11 AND WHY THE **** DID WE RAID IRAQ WHEN IF WE REALLY WANTED TO SAVE A THREATENING COUNTRY WITH A DICTATOR WHY DIDNT WE GO TO NORTH KOREA WHERE THE HAVE ****IN NUKES... I AM COMPARING HIM TO THE CLINTON WHO WAS A GREAT LEADER AND THE ONLY THING THAT RUINED HIS IMAGE WAS THE ORAL SEX.. OTHER THEN THAT HE WOULD OF BEEN A TEDDY ROSEVELT WHO WAS THE LAST GREAT REPUBLICAN.. HAVE U HEARD OF THE CABINENT?

the north korea guy wasn't killing his people... most of them like him... a lot of iraqis didn't like houssein... but i still think that bush headed for iraq partly because his dad did...but iraq was told to destroy all the wmd after the desert storm and have checks from the u.n. then they just stopped letting the u.n. come back to check which is suspicious coming from saddam so it was kinda justified

and a lot of the military hated clinton so there had to have been something else

[Andres]

drift cars are rear wheel drive passenger cars that have a light to medium weight.. the only american cars that are used to drift are the mustang and the viper and gto.. aslo max power oulet has nothing to do with drifting but linear response is much greater a need... seeing ur lack of knowledge of the sport or even the occasional viewing of a comp on the speed channel please stop ur useless bickering

most light to medium weight passanger cars are not RWD... Caddys and Lincolns and Benzs and Bimmers are RWD passanger cars... and they are not light... the viper isnt a passanger car ...

Dont they use Supras, Zs, RX-7s and such? those arent really passanger cars

Im not claiming to know much about the sport, and if you think what I say is bullsh!t, then how would you describe what you said about the Z06?

[ADRsk8boarder]

is this over saddamn killing his people? CAUSE THEN WHY THE **** ARE WE CHARGING HIM ON **** THAT HAPPENED IN THE 80'S WHY THE **** DIDNT WE GO IN... THE AMERICAN PUBLIC HAS TO REALIZE THAT THE UN HAS ABSOLUTLY NO POWER SPECIALLY WHEN WE APPOINT PEOPLE TO IT LIKE THE PERSON WE HAVE IN THEIR NOW I FORGET HIS NAME BUT HE IS A COMPLETE DOUCHEBAG AND DOESTN DO **** CEPT WANT SANCTIONS AND SANCTIONS DONT DO **** BEING THE UN CANT ENFORCE SANCTIONS

[ADRsk8boarder]

then how would you describe what you said about the Z06?

THE Z06 ISNT A ****IN DRIFT CAR

[Andres]

THE Z06 ISNT A ****IN DRIFT CAR


it is a direct competator to the viper

[ADRsk8boarder]

The Viper Is ****in Rear Wheeled Drive

[Andres]

The Viper Is ****in Rear Wheeled Drive

so is the z06

if fact this is how similar they are...

Vette vs Viper

7.0L/427 vs 8.3L/505
505hp @ 6300rpm vs 500hp @ 5600rpm
3132lb vs 3356lb
$69,175.00 vs $83,145.00

etc...

[djstealth]

I do drifting on minivans

[ltdboarder33]

ftr nick is hella gay and doesnt even kno wut hes talking about and is just following kelly cuz he has nothing to say on his own. i dont agree with kelly but shes entitled to her own opinion. ftr nick needs to stop taking other peoples opinions and get his own

[shank]

ftr nick is hella gay and doesnt even kno wut hes talking about and is just following kelly cuz he has nothing to say on his own. i dont agree with kelly but shes entitled to her own opinion. ftr nick needs to stop taking other peoples opinions and get his own
What in the hell are you talking about?

[djstealth]

beats me too? :confused: