The Great Burton Debate

[gerard]

Is it me or does it seem like there are so many ppl that are all about burton gear. I don't know if they are the bigest company but big or popular companies doesn't mean they are the best. There are a ton of other companies out there that make some really great gear, so why burton?

[SnoChick]

I used to be totally against Burton snowboards until I got my Custom X because I always thought Burton was overpriced and their products aren't that high quality but sell because they're Burton.

But Burton does make good high-end gears even though the price point isn't always right... and my attitude about Burton changed this year when I realized that the local Burton rep was really the only one that took care of the "lesser-known (or virtually unknown) amateur-athletes" when I needed new gears... some of the reps from other companies wouldn't even give me the time of day.

The Burton rep hooked me up with the Custom X for under $250, so I guess I can't complain...

[SnoChica]

Burton stuff is EVERYWHERE. And because of that, easy to get your hands on. I know that some of the lesser known, yet high quality, gear is a little harder to come by.

You want a Burton Board Bag? You'll find one in 2 secs. online. You want a Rome Cache, forget about it.

[Tizzer]

I've ridden a grip of different gear from different companies and in my experience I found that it's not about company hype, but product. all my burton gear takes a beating and keeps going and ya gotta love that. I mean they do have a sick team and it is also the team influence that helps keep the gear fresh and innovative. Also you know that they own forum, special blend, foursquare, and jeenyus now right ? Also they've been making boards since there were snowboards to be had, just like sims although sims is now outta buisness. I suppose burton just has the goods.

[wing]

The way I see it is that Burton is the Honda of snowboards. You can ride them til you think it'll give up on you, but then you end up putting another 100k miles on it.

[SnoChica]

Fun analogy!

[SnoChick]

The way I see it is that Burton is the Honda of snowboards. You can ride them til you think it'll give up on you, but then you end up putting another 100k miles on it.

Interesting... I've never heard of Burton being compared to Honda... esp from a price point perspective... haha

[short_beans]

i think it's also cause burton is one of the most widely advertised companies too. like at sierra-at-tahoe, all the gear they have is burton

[gerard]

yeah it is definatley the most advertised. If you see snowboard ads you see like 10 burton ads before you see another company.

[boarder94]

i used to think burton was over priced but when i started working at a board shop i really learned how much burton is compared to other boards. they say that burton is 3 years a head of everyone else. i dont know if you can really say that because everyone has there own style but still. for example burton came up with the toe strap this year. and every company is trying to find a way to have there own toe strap. at the shop barely have burton boards in for repair. ( alot of bindings but only because the cartel's high back break on the chair lefts. burton also really focuses on kids boards and womens boards which is awesome.

[Grill]

Burton is the most popular because it is the biggest. They have roughly a third of the board market and even more when it comes to bindings. Obviously being the biggest (as well as one of snowboardings pioneers) means that they have a massive R&D budget and will clearly introduce new ideas and technologies to the marketplace (the baltimore toe strap was NOT one of them). However, being the biggest also means have to quality control the most product, and that is where I take issue with Burton.

Their bindings have always been shady in the quality arena. Not just the millions of snapped/broken straps (come on, who here hasn't snapped a few on their Burton bindings?), but also with broken baseplates (notice the baseplate warranty they added this year) and highbacks (not limited to the cartels, check out the p1 carbons and C60).

In recent years it also seems that their boards have been going a bit downhill. Not only do they seem weaker (I saw a lot of snapped Burtons this year, especially including two Custom Xs), but the bases are amazingly inconsistent. Everyone says the Custom is the perfect board, after all with as much R&D as it's had over the years it should be, but a lot of them had incredibly slow bases this year. Personally, I'd be mighty peeved if I dumped 500+ on a board that keeps getting overtaken by rentals. Also, the alumafly core in the T6 and Vapor worry me. The way that it's laid it looks as though it can fold in on itself given the right amount of pressure.

I do think that Burton does a good job with their soft goods, after all even I'm semi-burtoned out on the slopes, but it seems as though it's their emphasis these days. Have you seen just how big their clothing line is? I think if they stopped bringing out chavriffic Burburry print luggage and pants, and put more effort into their boards and bindings then they'd get rid of a lot of people like me who are apprehensive to even look at their stuff.

[boarder94]

oh, i guess thats all i have to say. i was told burton with the toe strap but then again a rep told me that. it suprised me that u said the custom x has a slow base i use a feelgood es and i thought it was amazing and the custom x has that same base. it really sucks up wax. i heard about burton boards breaking back in the day, how and where are they breaking now?

[SnoChica]

I think the TechNine MFM Bindings had the Baltimore Toe Strap first.

From somewhere out in the web world..."And just for the record it was Justin Hebbel that thought of these straps not MFM. You can read about how he kept his toe strap over the very tip of his toe in his IPO section a few years ago. He rides for Analog and Technine and that's why Burton and Technine picked up on it. He's also from Baltimore which is why Technine calls it the Baltimore toe strap."

But here is a conflicting story about it being MFM who came up with it: http://www.snowboardermag.com/news/brtntch/

[gerard]

yeah from what I understand technine came out with the idea first and burton bought the idea from them, or licensed it.

[sloppysean]

burton is the best in the market, they control over half of the snowboarding industry and they have control of forum, jeenyus, foursquare (i think), special blend, the list goes on. They have more money and are able to do better things with the company, not to mention that jake burton is really cool and only has the best stuff and riders and promotes his **** through the best riders (aka shaun white) and such. Burton is the originator, not the imitator and thats what people want.

[sloppysean]

and justin hebbel (from baltimore, or where im from basically MD) came up with the baltimore toe strap, and burton owns technine basically

[SnoChica]

One side note.... Burton must have something going on that people don't like these days... Take the guys who started ROME boards. Supposedly ex-Burton guys who weren't happy with the way Burton was progressing. (I'm slightly iased because I have a Rome board.)

There is one thing I really hate about Burton equip. Specifically their boards and bindings. It's the style/graphics. Because Burton is so popular, they need to play it safe with their graphics, as not to turn people off. Which actually has the opposite affect on me. I like the companies that are a bit edgier in their look.

The smaller shops may not have big R&D budgets, but the employees of those places have a bigger voice. They tend to be more involved from the ground up, and therefore more innovative. Sure, sometimes the product may not work the way it was supposed to, but with risk there is no reward.

[short_beans]

I agree with snochica, i really don't like burton's graphics either.. i'm just not into a lot of the theme they have going on. but in general, i like a lot of the men's boards more than the women's

[rustybean]

yeap. the graphics really get to me. my sister and i reckon there are other companies out there that have nicer looking boards.

and becos we;ve just got into snowboarding, burton is sall we've heard. i rekn it's the amazing marketing budget theyve got. there's this shop i knw (they're a great shop btw) and when i asked them if they stocked k2 boards, they said they dun and tht burton is pretty much all they stock cos it's the best there is out there.

personally, ill take a few years, try a few boards and then decide.

[sloppysean]

i agree with you on that, i personally like the other boards, some of the new boards because its more of rider based and less of an industrial giant, but the burton boards (ive herd) are really good boards, very solid in construction and not breaking. i mean i ride m3 and i love it cuz they are so nice on rails, but i beat the **** outta mine and m3's rails (at least used to) delaminate and ****, but its still what i like. Capita has some nice boards, and Rome is sick. It depends on what people want, as you guys stated, a lot of the up and commers like the more low key rider based companies because its more home like, and like the local riders and stores, etc. its not some industrial giant that is monopolizing the entire industry.

[gerard]

yeah I think that burton just became too big too much of a corporate company. I usually like the underdog and the smaller companies they seem to be more innovative. Burton is just really boring now, as most of you said that their graphics got more tame. Thats what happens when u get that big.

[Ry]

yea, cuz burton is so popular you don't get a chance to really hear about the smaller companies that make really good products..one that i know of is Rome..and like someone said, yea it is really easy to find burton stuff

[Gumby21]

It seems like half the people here think burton boards and bindings are sh*t and break all the time, and the other half think they last FOREVER and can take a beating like nobody's business. I, for one, having never used a burton board or bindings, am quite confused.

[Agour9]

My older brother rides a Rome 156 anthem board. he said its one of the better quality boards he has ridden. When i first started i rode a roxy board. in my opinion it wasnt all that great. but now i ride a burton.

[Grill]

oh, i guess thats all i have to say. i was told burton with the toe strap but then again a rep told me that. it suprised me that u said the custom x has a slow base i use a feelgood es and i thought it was amazing and the custom x has that same base. it really sucks up wax. i heard about burton boards breaking back in the day, how and where are they breaking now?


I'm not saying the bases are slow, just inconsistent. A few people I know with Customs complained about the base, they just happened to be really slow. What it shows is someone in Burton's quality control department slipped up. It could happen to any company, but logically since Burton is the biggest, they'll have the most problems slip by them.

[sloppysean]

that doesnt make any sense that the most problems will slip by, not percentwise, the smaller companies have less resourses, burton is a solid company, IT OWNS HALF THE INDUSTRY! forum is owned by burton, and burton started snowboarding, it gets NICE!, i mean its a huge company and i am all for the smaller guys, but there is no **** to give to burton, its the best and probably always will be

[gerard]

as someone said that burton boards are inconsistent and there are sometimes problem. Well this is true for any large company that mass produces products. You are trying to make the most of a product by a certain time. With tight deadlines little things get overlooked and sometimes lead to bigger problems. Say burton makes a million boards a year(I am not sure how many are made I am just making a point) it would be very hard to take your time and go over them as you make them. Take a smaller company,say like rome or something. Now if they make only a thousand boards a year then you can easily take your time making them and check to make sure they were done right.

[sloppysean]

they also have the most resourses to go over and check every aspect of the board before its sent out and would easily and quickly replace anything that is malfunctioning on ur board or whatever or if it isnt up to quality.

[Grill]

they also have the most resourses to go over and check every aspect of the board before its sent out and would easily and quickly replace anything that is malfunctioning on ur board or whatever or if it isnt up to quality.


Most companies (read: successful) are all about the bottom line. They wouldn't be in business for long if they didn't turn a profit. Because of this, they naturally look for cost effectiveness in all areas. In the case of Burton, they've decided that it's more cost effective to replace a defective/inferior product than to hire more people to ensure a higher level of quality. It makes perfect sense, especially if you consider just how little it costs them to make a board with their cheap labor and manufacturing costs.

[sloppysean]

jake burton is a good guy, my friend rides with him, she says hes cool **** and a nice dude, and he started snowboarding, hes really into it. id trust him wehn it came to my snowboarding needs.

[SnoChica]

jake burton is a good guy, my friend rides with him, she says hes cool **** and a nice dude, and he started snowboarding, hes really into it. id trust him wehn it came to my snowboarding needs.Don't trust anyone whose tasted the life of the rich & famous... they are always looking for ways to make more money.

You know why Hyundai's have a 10 year warranty? Because they need them....

[sloppysean]

have u ever met the guy?

[SnoChica]

No, but I'm always distrustful of corporate america. And if you believe that Jack Burton is not corporate and just a regular guy, then maybe you should work in a corporation for few years. I'm not being a smart ass, but seriously... he owns a company, and if you think his number one concern is you... well, I'll let you in on a secret... His number one priority is a successful company.

That being said, he's probably more in tune with his customer than most and truly understands what makes a good board and therefore a good product to SELL. He knows that selling a good board means a good bottom line. Business is business.

I believe he's a good guy. And I believe he truly wants to make good product. But he also needs to do that using the most cost-effective methods possible. Sometimes that means employing cheap labor. Sometimes it means that Quality checks are lacking.

Yes, I'm a cynic in this respect.

[sloppysean]

eh maybe, but hes the origonator of snowboarding, and my friend, well...used to be friend, who is pro, said he was a really cool down to earth dude and is all about snowboarding and progressing the sport so i believe her.

[burnpianoxisland]

Jake Burton is corporate now, but he is a really nice guy. I've talked to him at the US Open now each time I go there (5 years) and he hasn't changed at all. He still cares about the sport and the opinion of riders.

[Grill]

I'm sure Jake Burton is a nice guy, but that has nothing to do with running a business. Business is about profit, and profit is made buy selling an inexpensive product at a high price (this is where Burton comes in...). Anyway, it's not like Jake hand-crafts the things himself. That's a job for malnourished Asian kids.

[sloppysean]

still a good company. think what u want, it is a good company with the best equiptment, i mean personally i dont ride burton, i mean it depends on how u like to ride, i like a lot of flex and thats why i ride m3 even tho it breaks easy and ****, i still just like it and its what im used to

[MorganMonzo]

oh! when I first started boarding that's pretty much the only brand I knew because I heard the name so much...but I think Burton's nothing special...their designs are really pretty though, hah. I'll sitck with my Jeenyus.

[snoboardalicious]

i've heard a lot of hype about burton on the mountain and i think a lot of kids throw the name around because they think it makes them sound cooler or something. i'm a snowboard instructor and avid rider and have seen a lot of dif brands of boards and gear. burton may be around alot, but theyre stuff breaks all the time. my friends are constantly sending stuff back because it broke or tore. i ride a rome board and LOVE it. she's taken a beating and is still in good shape...that's more than i can say for a few of my friends. but this is just my opinion based on observation. if you're loving ur burton, more power to ya. ride on.

[Voyle]

i havnt been boarding long, about 2 years on and off, i only this year started to really get into it, and i havnt heared of many makes because of this, but as you have said, burton advertises the most, and so its the make that everyone is familiar with. that's probably why it is the most poular.
After reading these, i am not so keen on them myself.

ooh and it would be really awsum if someone could help me by givin me a few quality brand names, thanks man 8)

[nvrsummer]

I agree that everyone is into Burton gear and I have been riding for almost a decade now. I have seen many awesome boards and gear in my day and many of them were not Burton. Just today I was checkin out bindings and boards that I might want to buy for the upcoming season because I cant wait. I strongly dislike Burton boards, however, their bindings are quite stellar. I have narrowed down my binding selection between the C60 (if ever get enough money), the P1 and Cartel. I also like Ride bindings too because they make the top of the line bindings. I think everyone likes Burton because it is a popular company, not because they make good products. Granted, they have one really kickass board (the Custom) and their bindings have always had a good reputation. So, I may succomb to this Burton craze to buy some bindings, but not because they are Burtons, but because the research I have done on bindings shows that Burton and Ride have good bindings, and Burton just may have what I am looking for.

-Terry

[Grill]

Go with next seasons Ride Flights (either Migs or Tomcats). They have convertible toe straps that can be used traditionally or as a toe cap, redesigned highbacks, and are still stronger and light than any Burton (yes, even the C60). Plus on the Mig, the Carbon Fiber rebound bars are internal so you won't have to worry about them cracking a la C60 and P1 carbon. Next season will make my third set of Flights with no problems...

[nvrsummer]

Thanks for the info, I think I'll take ya up on that and go out get some. I really didnt want to get some Burtons because I have been an anti-Burton gear user so I didnt want to have to break that. I had Drake bindings before and they were absolutely the worst quality of construction. Take it easy...

[sloppysean]

what kinda bindings and boots should i get, i got old burton missions like 3 years old, and DC phantom 2's. but yah im thinking about gettin thirty two's i herd theyre sick. and idk what board to get, mines broked

[Sidewall]

Admit it, Burton has some top names riding for them and 99.99999r% of riders buy products solely based on company endorsements and advertisements.

At least Burton has the product to back up their corporate brainwashing.

[thedude]

burton is huge. i have a few burton things, but i am nto one of these people who goes out and goes all in on burton gear. it si quality ****, man, and i wish that i could save up this summer to get a good park board from them.

[SimonInAustralia]

I'm one of those people that buys all Burton gear. I guess I have a slight obsessive-compulsive disorder, I get into buying everything from one brand.

Anyway, Burton makes great gear, they have a large variety to choose from. They have been doing it for so long, they know what they are doing.

I don't care if they are corporate, they make good gear. I have not seen any other gear that makes me wish I didn't have this obsessive Burton thing going.

I don't care what the board graphics looks like, or what the style of the clothing looks like, I just go for the lightest tech gear. All Burton AK clothing (Continuum jacket/pants), lightest core wide board (for my large size 13 feet). It's about riding for me, staying comfy in the middle of a blizzard, not stylin in the bar. A lot of people seem to head for the bar when the weather comes in, that's the best time to be out riding, getting the freshies, being in the blizzard, in the worst that nature can throw at you. Who ****ing cares what your board graphics look like when it's covered in fresh pow and you can't wipe the smile off your face.

Simon
Canberra
AUSTRALIA

[thedude]

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| in agreement wiht this guy about not caring about style or graphics


it's just snowboarding, f*** everything else and jsut have fun

[sloppysean]

yah, idk whats up with all this new "stick it to the man" frenzie

[Vailmadness]

burton is the best in the market, they control over half of the snowboarding industry and they have control of forum, jeenyus, foursquare (i think), special blend, the list goes on. They have more money and are able to do better things with the company, not to mention that jake burton is really cool and only has the best stuff and riders and promotes his **** through the best riders (aka shaun white) and such. Burton is the originator, not the imitator and thats what people want.


Yeah good point but if burton's got all this money, why cant they appease every body with the prices we want? i mean cmon i dont think thats cartels materials are even worth 100$ yet they over sell it for 200$ y cant they make like an economy line for like 50$ bindings and boards that 1st timers could really afford .

[Vailmadness]

another thing listen, i have burton freestyles and a f***ing snowjam board and zuma boots my whole line dont even cost that of 1 burton board yet im already busting out 7's and nose presses

[sloppysean]

i wish i could do sevens, wanna help me out?

[ltsnowboarder15]

i bought a rossi board that at the time was better then all the burtons except for the custom and was about 100 dollars cheeper. People say the Burton is the Wall Mart of snowboarding. Well if they are the Wall Mart of snowboarding why dont they sell there **** for cheap prices? Oh and drake bindings are still bettter then those cartells. I believe drake came out with some binding that is like made of Carbon Fiber or some expensive **** like that. Saw them for cheaper then the cartells.

[sambrown8022]

burton is one of the best companies because: the company owner is a snowboarder...some companies used to be ski companies that saw the snowboard market rising and gave it a try...Jake burton was snowboarding from the beginning, Their boards are mostly rider designed...their pro riders have a huge influence on the graphics and materials the boards are made out of...and last...all their products are equally good...the mens line of gear is just as good as the weomens, even the kids gear is first rate...

[SnoChica]

So does that mean that just because the owner of a car company is also a car driver that the company makes better cars? Hehe, just playing devel's advocate?

[ltsnowboarder15]

So does that mean that just because the owner of a car company is also a car driver that the company makes better cars? Hehe, just playing devel's advocate?


Ya the owner of Rossignal is a skiier. There boards are amazing. They dnt have to neccessarly be a boarder, they just have to know something about the sport. And name a company that makes snowboard stuff where the owner or the founder was not a skiier or boarder.

[volcomgrrl]

plus there the only company that has a board for girls made by girls for speed and felx its the greatest thing ive ever put on even better than boy boxer breifs

[ltsnowboarder15]

Ya burtons are definately the best for girls. What kind of burton do you have?

[volcomgrrl]

its a burton life, its a couple of years old though i really need a new one but im soo attched i love it plus the lack of funds all my team wants me to ride is M3

[ltsnowboarder15]

my sister has a new nice one and i forgot the name of it

[mpc808]

I just like burton stuff because it's what I started with. I made myself a promise to start using other brands after my burton boards are done with.

[SimonInAustralia]

Anyway, it's not like Jake hand-crafts the things himself. That's a job for malnourished Asian kids.

I thought that Burton boards were made in Burlington, somewhere in Canada, and in Austria. Bindings in Italy. Boots in China. Softgoods in various asian countries, China, Macau, Sri Lanka, etc.

So if you're talking board and bindings, then it isn't asian kids. Clothing is though.

Simon
Canberra
AUSTRALIA

[Levi]

Burton isn't that big around here! I have owned a couple of Burton boards and they ride just like any other high-end board. But with Burton you pay for the name.

[burtonforever]

dude burton's **** rocks thats y people buy their ****

[snowboardnguy90]

Burton is a good brand, no doubt... but it isn't necessarily the best. Ride (I personally think) has the best boards and bindings. However, if you're looking for the wood-core boards, you def. can't beat lamar. I think it's just that burton just has a bigger allaround hype about it... i have no clue y (pbbly one of those things that started way back when...) It's actually so big that i know some ppl hu don't even snowboard and know who burton is... maybe it just sounds kool...

[ltsnowboarder15]

Burton is a good brand, no doubt... but it isn't necessarily the best. Ride (I personally think) has the best boards and bindings. However, if you're looking for the wood-core boards, you def. can't beat lamar. I think it's just that burton just has a bigger allaround hype about it... i have no clue y (pbbly one of those things that started way back when...) It's actually so big that i know some ppl hu don't even snowboard and know who burton is... maybe it just sounds kool...


I knew someone that had a Lamar and it sucked. I think it was worse then a 5150 board, or whatever company that is. Best Company name, not quality of stuff neccessarly, has got to be Never Summer... Coolest name ever.

[bobdea]

In recent years it also seems that their boards have been going a bit downhill. Not only do they seem weaker (I saw a lot of snapped Burtons this year, especially including two Custom Xs), but the bases are amazingly inconsistent. Everyone says the Custom is the perfect board, after all with as much R&D as it's had over the years it should be, but a lot of them had incredibly slow bases this year. Personally, I'd be mighty peeved if I dumped 500+ on a board that keeps getting overtaken by rentals. Also, the alumafly core in the T6 and Vapor worry me. The way that it's laid it looks as though it can fold in on itself given the right amount of pressure.




slow bases?
how about people need to learn to wax and/or have the proper grind, iwith grinds there are some huge inconsistancies with burton gear due to different machines being used or different techs running them and a whole bunch of other factors.
burton does not make the bases of their boards they get them from the same places the ski companies do.
another issue is that some of the higher end base materials if not waxed well are actually slower than the cheap extruded bases, at least thats what rosignol and K2 claim.

Burton makes some great gear and some that sucks but they are great when it comes to service
we were talking about that in another thread http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6520

[neversummerer]

i feel alone when i look at this forum, ha, but i'll ride never summer until i'm really blown away by burton. being an ex-national team member in archery, knowing what makes the equipment is what gets me. a good deal, a place to get it, good sales pitches and lots and lots of proof are what sell me. never summer does that and the poeple at sail world here in massachusetts convinced me its the way to go.

[o0xmiriam331]

yea i went all-out last season and bought everything burton...board boots bindings pants jackets tshirts gloves goggles... and my bindings fell apart in the first month.... burton def. isnt worth shoveling out the extra dough for crappy stuff

[SnoChica]

Bobdea is right about the waxing... the sintered base boards that are considered more "high-end" absorb wax like a mofo. So you need to keep them hydrated. There are even variations in the sintered boards. But typically, the higher-end the board, the more waxing it's going to need to stay fast.

[Riiiiiiiiide]

yeah from what I understand technine came out with the idea first and burton bought the idea from them, or licensed it.

i heard burton stole the idea before Technine had it patented...alot of people like the technines more..and say that burton didn't quite do it right...I do like some burton things..but alot of other companies kick ass.

[Levi]

I like neversummer boards but I will stick to Palmer and Soloman boards

[lame rider]

personally i think burton is the safe choice that you cant go wrong with.... people always say bad things about a company and how they make crappy products. or how they prefer another over anything else... ive heard great things and bads things about each and every company except burton... never once have i heard someone say that they owned something made by burton and werent satisfied with it... yeah it may not be the best for everyone and one's personal preference for riding... but it is a safe choice for durability, and good overall quality. i personally dont have a burton board or boots anymore because ive found some that i like more, but i still did like my burton gear alot.... plus the cartel bindings are sick

[SnoChica]

never once have i heard someone say that they owned something made by burton and werent satisfied with it...
Ummm have you read pages 1-4 or this thread. Tons of people have had problems with Burton. And this is just a small subset of snowboarders. (Soon to be huge, right G?)

[bobdea]

never summer rocks!
I have put some of those boards to the test and let me tell you they simply rock, and they are tough as hell to boot

Technine and cap straps, to put a patent on a strap like that would be touchy not sure if it could be done other than to cover your exact design
it would be like patenting a ankle strap, you could do it but someone could change something so minor and sell it that try to protect it would be futile

[A-Basinguy]

Burton rules. The post comparing them to Honda is right on.
I love a lot of the other company's but I still ride my custom 235 + days a year. It's like a time X wtih a rolex price tag. Unless your lucky enough to get proform.
I will say though Never summer and Unity are fukin' sick boards.. I can drive down to Denver and buy one right off the factory line. Plus they own a huge chunk of the CO market.
Go Colorado!

[Levi]

You ride 235 + days a year and you live in Colorado. Even if you ride every day from Nov. to April that is only 186 days. I think I need your job to ride 235 + days a year, but sorry I still wouldn't ride a burton.

[bobdea]

You ride 235 + days a year and you live in Colorado. Even if you ride every day from Nov. to April that is only 186 days. I think I need your job to ride 235 + days a year, but sorry I still wouldn't ride a burton.


judging from his login name thats because he rides A-basin the place has a really long season it just closed like two weeks ago
A-Basinguy, stop in and see Sean at donek snowboards and try some of his gear it rocks, they are somewhere in summit county www.donek.com
they are super cool about lending out demos infact they will even mail you one.

[A-Basinguy]

i realized after that post that my math is a little off.. sorry.. but we start as early as mid september and I literally ride or ski EVERYDAY.... until about june 1st... so i guess that's wait i just ran through the calander and sept... 16 to june is over 200 at least... not counting the back country we hike after the resorts close.. there's 2 bowls in Breckenridge that still have snow..

[A-Basinguy]

so ha!!

[Levi]

You’re a lucky man. I went to Snowbird Utah on June 18 there still open tell the end of the month.

[ltsnowboarder15]

i think if i rode that many days of the year my body wood litterally collapse and all my bones wood break.

[Y8S]

Because they make great stuff, period. I am a former employee of Burton, so I have ridden/worn/abused it all. I was also a buyer for one chain and a smaller family shop, so I have ridden all the rest as well. And you know what? Everyone makes great stuff. The key is to back it up with a superior warranty policy and great in-house customer support. This is where Burton excels. With a two day turnaround on all fixable warranty issues, you can't go wrong. And by the way, Burton fired me, and I still gotta give 'em props.

MySpace (http://www.myspace.com/14260417)

[A-Basinguy]

Hey thanx bobdea i'll definitly check that out....
I wish our season was longer but i'm pretty lucky to have that many days of riding available so I shouldn't complain.
That many days can take a toll on the body.. Sleep is your friend.
I hope to see some of ya out here.. ya got a place to stay if need be...

Peace!

[snowboardnguy90]

man if i could ride 235 days a year... i dunno cuz i've never done it. I'm pretty sure i'd get damned good real fast tho, seeing how u don't have like 3/4 the year to forget everything u learned. i'd pbbly like, die tho, cuz every day i go snowboarding i'm rele sore the next day... w/e

[SoLiTude1337]

I remember when I had just begun snowboarding, and EVERYTHING i had was Burton. I had bought all Burton because I had the impression put upon me that it was the best brand in snowboarding... After 7 years of riding, I have come to realize that Burton is like the Abercrombie & Fitch of snowboarding, you buy it for the brand name. I now dont own burton stuff, other than their boots, because they are truly quality (the Burton Hails). I ride the Atomic Hatchet with the Ride Team bindings. I also used to own only burton snow gear, but now i use special blend pants and a planet earth jacket.

I am not in any way saying that burton is a bad company, they in fact have some really nice snowboards... in the more expensive price range.

[Y8S]

Solitude, the only problem with the stuff you ride is that it is all made by ski companies. I definitely believe we should do our part to keep our money in snowboarding, and the core companies that keep it going. Also, I have seen so many warranty problems with Ride Bindings. They look bling, but the glue holding the cushioning to the baseplate or the toe ramp often separates. Just something to watch for.

[SnoChica]

I have seen so many warranty problems with Ride Bindings. They look bling, but the glue holding the cushioning to the baseplate or the toe ramp often separates. Just something to watch for.That's the first bad word I've ever heard spoken about Ride Bindings.

[Y8S]

Snochicka, when you see as many warranty problems as i have, you start to associate certain problems with certain companies. Every company has some. Coulda just been one production year, haven't sold the product in a year. But it's still a ski company, support the dark side!

[snowboardnguy90]

i think ride has very good bindings... that's what i use =)

[Grill]

Snochicka, when you see as many warranty problems as i have, you start to associate certain problems with certain companies. Every company has some. Coulda just been one production year, haven't sold the product in a year. But it's still a ski company, support the dark side!

Ride is a ski company... Since when?

Even if they have a problem with the glue (I've been on Rides for 3 years and did 100+ days last year with no problems as have many of my friends) I've yet to see a snapped baseplate or snapped straps (I'm looking at you Burton).

[Y8S]

Umm...Ride has always been owned by K2.

[Grill]

Umm...Ride has always been owned by K2.

Ferrari = Fiat
Cosworth = Ford
Lambo = Audi
Bentley = Ford
Rolls Royce = BMW

You have got to be joking. Toyota developed Lexus for a specialized market in the same way K2 developed Ride for a specialized market (duh, us). Saying that Ride sucks because they were created by a ski company makes you come off as amazingly ignorant. Anyway, Burton should count themselves lucky if their gear is half as reliable as Ride or K2 for that matter.

[snowboardnguy90]

Umm...Ride has always been owned by K2.

Ferrari = Fiat
Cosworth = Ford
Lambo = Audi
Bentley = Ford
Rolls Royce = BMW

You have got to be joking. Toyota developed Lexus for a specialized market in the same way K2 developed Ride for a specialized market (duh, us). Saying that Ride sucks because they were created by a ski company makes you come off as amazingly ignorant. Anyway, Burton should count themselves lucky if their gear is half as reliable as Ride or K2 for that matter.i agree with u, but y8s sed bfore that there have been warranty issues and sum binding problems, and never sed they sucked.

[SnoChica]

This convo is officially no longer about Burton. I'd like to see this die.

[Y8S]

Umm...Ride has always been owned by K2.

Ferrari = Fiat
Cosworth = Ford
Lambo = Audi
Bentley = Ford
Rolls Royce = BMW

You have got to be joking. Toyota developed Lexus for a specialized market in the same way K2 developed Ride for a specialized market (duh, us). Saying that Ride sucks because they were created by a ski company makes you come off as amazingly ignorant. Anyway, Burton should count themselves lucky if their gear is half as reliable as Ride or K2 for that matter.

I never said that any ski company makes inferior equipment, not once. So before you press down too hard on your keyboard, take a step back, breathe deep and repeat. I said it is more of a benefit to the industry (and yes, I work in it) if we kept snowboarders money in snowboard companies. Plus, I don't think your little car companies are made in China, which is where the K2 conglomerate shifted their manufacturing plants a couple years ago. All of it. Ninety percent of Burton is still made in Vermont. Ride does not suck. Just the English.

[Grill]

I never said that any ski company makes inferior equipment, not once. So before you press down too hard on your keyboard, take a step back, breathe deep and repeat. I said it is more of a benefit to the industry (and yes, I work in it) if we kept snowboarders money in snowboard companies. Plus, I don't think your little car companies are made in China, which is where the K2 conglomerate shifted their manufacturing plants a couple years ago. All of it. Ninety percent of Burton is still made in Vermont. Ride does not suck. Just the English.


Apologies, I read between the lines instead of taking your post at face value; however, I don't find that just because a company manufactures products that are not exclusive to one industry they are hurting said industry. By purchasing from Ride, K2, Salomon, Rossi, etc. you are helping that specific company, but it in no way hurts the snowboard industry. Competition merely forces the "dedicated" snowboard companies to improve their offerings. If they are outdone by a company who got started in skis then it's their own fault for not improving their product, not the consumer because they saw better value in a competitive product.

The argument of where products are manufactured is completely irrelevant. If a company has a poor QC department then the product will suck no matter where it is made. I guarantee the clothes you're wearing now weren't made in the US. Does that make them bad?

I'll let the last comment slide since my 20+ years in the states and my tax money make me as American as you.

[Y8S]

First off, my last comment was in retort to you calling me amazingly ignorant, when I know perfectly well what I am talking about, and have the professional experience to back it up. Secondly, the problem with buying snowboard equipment from a ski company has nothing to do with the product itself. What it does pertain to, however, is the fact that when Jake/Tom tried to popularize snowboarding in the late seventies, early eighties, guess who tried to ban it? That's right, the ski companies. For ten years they tried to keep the stuff off the mountains, that is, until they saw it was pointless and that they could make a buck off it. It's called integrity. Keep the sport/lifestyle to those who deserve it.

[Grill]

First off, my last comment was in retort to you calling me amazingly ignorant, when I know perfectly well what I am talking about, and have the professional experience to back it up. Secondly, the problem with buying snowboard equipment from a ski company has nothing to do with the product itself. What it does pertain to, however, is the fact that when Jake/Tom tried to popularize snowboarding in the late seventies, early eighties, guess who tried to ban it? That's right, the ski companies. For ten years they tried to keep the stuff off the mountains, that is, until they saw it was pointless and that they could make a buck off it. It's called integrity. Keep the sport/lifestyle to those who deserve it.

How incredibly elitist. That's the sort of remidial logic that perpetuated racisim. "The nice toilets and drinking fountains were ours first, so letting blacks use them after we fought so hard to keep them second-class citizens wouldn't be right." A harsh parallel, but hopefully you'll be able to see my point. Why should my conscience suffer because I want to purchase equipment that I actually enjoy using? How would you feel if Burton started making skis and one-pieces? Would you call them sell-outs because they're trying to expand their market?

[Y8S]

First off, my last comment was in retort to you calling me amazingly ignorant, when I know perfectly well what I am talking about, and have the professional experience to back it up. Secondly, the problem with buying snowboard equipment from a ski company has nothing to do with the product itself. What it does pertain to, however, is the fact that when Jake/Tom tried to popularize snowboarding in the late seventies, early eighties, guess who tried to ban it? That's right, the ski companies. For ten years they tried to keep the stuff off the mountains, that is, until they saw it was pointless and that they could make a buck off it. It's called integrity. Keep the sport/lifestyle to those who deserve it.

How incredibly elitist. That's the sort of remidial logic that perpetuated racisim. "The nice toilets and drinking fountains were ours first, so letting blacks use them after we fought so hard to keep them second-class citizens wouldn't be right." A harsh parallel, but hopefully you'll be able to see my point. Why should my conscience suffer because I want to purchase equipment that I actually enjoy using? How would you feel if Burton started making skis and one-pieces? Would you call them sell-outs because they're trying to expand their market?

Ok, now it just seems as though you're getting a little silly. You call it a harsh parallel, but in reality it's just stupid. Yes, I would be pissed off if Burton began making skis and onesies, for the simple fact that those products are not what Burton knows. They certainly would be sell-outs. Then, of course I would be forced to switch to Never Summer, which also makes great products. And I truly hope you weren't insinuating that I am a rascist, because I try to support the industry I work in, and try to advance it on a daily basis. Thank you for your time. Good day, sir (insert pompous British accent here).

[Grill]

First off, my last comment was in retort to you calling me amazingly ignorant, when I know perfectly well what I am talking about, and have the professional experience to back it up. Secondly, the problem with buying snowboard equipment from a ski company has nothing to do with the product itself. What it does pertain to, however, is the fact that when Jake/Tom tried to popularize snowboarding in the late seventies, early eighties, guess who tried to ban it? That's right, the ski companies. For ten years they tried to keep the stuff off the mountains, that is, until they saw it was pointless and that they could make a buck off it. It's called integrity. Keep the sport/lifestyle to those who deserve it.

How incredibly elitist. That's the sort of remidial logic that perpetuated racisim. "The nice toilets and drinking fountains were ours first, so letting blacks use them after we fought so hard to keep them second-class citizens wouldn't be right." A harsh parallel, but hopefully you'll be able to see my point. Why should my conscience suffer because I want to purchase equipment that I actually enjoy using? How would you feel if Burton started making skis and one-pieces? Would you call them sell-outs because they're trying to expand their market?

Ok, now it just seems as though you're getting a little silly. You call it a harsh parallel, but in reality it's just stupid. Yes, I would be pissed off if Burton began making skis and onesies, for the simple fact that those products are not what Burton knows. They certainly would be sell-outs. Then, of course I would be forced to switch to Never Summer, which also makes great products. And I truly hope you weren't insinuating that I am a rascist, because I try to support the industry I work in, and try to advance it on a daily basis. Thank you for your time. Good day, sir (insert pompous British accent here).

e·lit·ism or é·lit·ism
n.
The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.

Seriously man, I used to wonder why skiers hated me. That sort of thinking is far more detrimental than buying a Darkstar.

You say you try to advance snowboarding, but what if Salomon came up with the latest in High Tech composites that made all snowboards lighter and stronger? Would you refuse to buy it because it wasn't invented by Burton? What if every snowboard company licensed said composite? Would you quite riding because they all sold out?

[ltsnowboarder15]

There is nothing wrong with buying stuff from a ski/snowboard company. I have rossi stuff and they make both skis and snowboards. All you people that think that its stupid to buy stuff from Ride just cuz they are owned buy a ski company are lame. Skiiers and ski companys are fine, i dont get why we all cant get along.

[snowboardnguy90]

i agree. And it's not as if our money goes into the ski business either, so that the ski companies get more money to make better ski products. If u buy something from Ride, the money goes TO Ride, so they can pay for more research to get better snowboarding technology.

[Y8S]

It's amazing how easy it is to light a fire under someone's ass and get some good dialogue in here. I've been reading this page for weeks and this is the first interesting conversation I've seen. I give in, you good people are right. Buy from whomever, whenever. It is all great stuff. I still stick by my previous point that I have taken in way to many warranty issues with Ride bindings. Their boards, particularly the Timeless, however, rock. Peace.

[Grill]

Their boards, particularly the Timeless, however, rock. Peace.

Loved mine, but I haven't ridden it since I got my No. 4. You really needed to try one out if you can, it's the dog's bollocks. :)

[Levi]

OK OK....... Just let me tell you all a little something. Big time ski companies own almost all snowboard companies. I believe K2 bought out 3 different ones in last 3 years. And as far as Burton making skis yes they do!!! There split board comes from a ski design and they are coming out with ascent skis because people don't like the split board performance. And almost all snowboard and ski bases are made at the same factories. So lets just say Burton, Ride, Salomon or what ever brand you like to ride is good if you like it. But who wants to ride a Burton anyways!!!! Hahaha J/K I think they make a good back up board!!!!

[snowboardnguy90]

dog's bollocks?? i suppose that's a good thing?

[Y8S]

OK OK....... Just let me tell you all a little something. Big time ski companies own almost all snowboard companies. I believe K2 bought out 3 different ones in last 3 years. And as far as Burton making skis yes they do!!! There split board comes from a ski design and they are coming out with ascent skis because people don't like the split board performance. And almost all snowboard and ski bases are made at the same factories. So lets just say Burton, Ride, Salomon or what ever brand you like to ride is good if you like it. But who wants to ride a Burton anyways!!!! Hahaha J/K I think they make a good back up board!!!! I don't think you can say Burton makes skis if they are only made for going up. You still put it back together to ride down as a snowboard. Personally, I haven't had any problems with the Split Custom, however, in the cold it can be hard to put the pieces back in place. Simpler skis would be cool, but it would be pretty tough to get down the mountain with them on your back. I work for the company and this is the first I've heard of these plans, so I must say I'm a little hesitant to believe.
dog's bollocks?? i suppose that's a good thing?

[Levi]

Didn't you say worked for Burton???? Anyway that’s just what my local snowboard shop said. They went to the Las Vegas trade show and said they had seen them. And what the hell is dog's bollocks?????

I have a pair of K2 ascent skis and I love them. And I have gone down hill on them just like a tel-mark ski I must say it would not be fun going a long ways on them but it could be done. And as fare as riding down with the skis on you back way easy!!! Even better than my snowshoes.

[Levi]

Y8S.... Have you ever been out west to ride? I have some friends that live in Boston that have been down here to ride and said there is nothing even close up there. Anyway this winter you come on down and I will hook you up with a free lift pass and I will take you in the backcountry down here you will love it!!

[Y8S]

Y8S.... Have you ever been out west to ride? I have some friends that live in Boston that have been down here to ride and said there is nothing even close up there. Anyway this winter you come on down and I will hook you up with a free lift pass and I will take you in the backcountry down here you will love it!! Ummm...yeah dude, I've been there. Went to Breck this March, lived in New Zealand for 3 years, and went to college in Utah. I know what I'm talking about. And I love riding in both parts of the country. I embrace the ice. And there is some very good backcountry here if you know where to look. Snowshoes are more practical here, but I used the Split out west and it was pretty sweet.

[Levi]

Where did you go to college in Utah? I played a lot of ball against Utah schools.

[Y8S]

I'm a Ute...'98.

[SimonInAustralia]

I have a pair of K2 ascent skis and I love them. And I have gone down hill on them just like a tel-mark ski I must say it would not be fun going a long ways on them but it could be done. And as fare as riding down with the skis on you back way easy!!! Even better than my snowshoes.

I have snowshoes already and am keen to try the K2 Accent Skis.

Do you have the soft boot binding or the clicker binding on your Accent Skis?

I tried to buy some but can only find them for sale as clikcer binding versions.

If anyone knows of any for sale in the soft boot binding version, can you let me know?

Should be interesting to see what Burton does with them.

Can you ride along flat sections, or slightly downhill sections that are too flat to ride on your board?

I have some friends that want me to come out when they go cross country skiing, I'm wondering if the accent skis would be better to keep up with them than the snow shoes, I guess climbing speed would be similar, I'm wondering about keeping up on the flatter sections.

Simon
Canberra
AUSTRALIA

[kristen_rox]

its all about appearance. people want to look good when they ride i
guess.people do the same with clothes.how many people would pick abercrombie over k-mart? and some of the best are sponsered by burton. Plus burton has been around FOREVER!

[Justleftlife]

So my take on burton is that since they had an early succsses... before things like the X games and the Gavity games then its rather easy for them to advertise on the things like the x gamrs and gravity games and ever where else they can get there little add up on to it just works for them that way but i say give the little a guy a look before you go and buy from the big guys

[mike667]

I dont know

I used to have a burton, but i wasnt really happy with it, since then ive been using lamar. works great for me.. I think that people use burton the most because they are the most advertised

[codyridessnow187]

Burton seems to be one of the topcompanys out there cuz of how much they market themselves they have made themselves one of the top companys not only for sum of thier top of the line gear such as my top 3fav items of burton would have to b 1.The shaun white boots2.The burton cartel elhabano bindings and 3.The 2005 Shaun white model but burton has advertised and put them selves out in the public eye to say hey were here ok we r here also they have some of the top riders such as Jeremy jones,Shaun White,Keir dillon,Jp Solberg and a good friend of mine luke mitrani! so its not that Burton is the best company out there its just more in the public eye other than RIDE,NeverSummer,K2,and option amongst other companys

[bs540inyoureye]

ill tell you people why burton is so popular-they are the best marketed company out there. also, that whole just because they are big doesnt mean they are good isnt true with burton. all of their gear will last a lifetime.ive ridden their boards and their bindings at one point in time and i enjoyed them immensely. thats all i got2say.

[snowboardnguy90]

yea one of my friends has all burton gear, and his bindings broke like the 3rd day... i don't know if that means ne thing or if it's just a factory reject... but i ride a lamar board, ride bindings, and dc boots nd everything's going fine =)

[Matt Waz]

Just because Burton owns most of the snowboard industry means in no way that they are the best. That means they have a monopoly over the industry, and makes it hard for other componies to compete with them. I always hear of Burton boards breaking constantly, even after like 3 rides. Why would people want to buy boards that break? Anyways they don't have the best riders on thier team either. People look up to Shaun White as a god, when the reality is someone like Danny Kass could beat him in pipe any day. Burton has become to corporate anyway, they focus too much on making money, and do not spend enough focus on making boards that don't break. This is the main reason the compony Rome started, because they were sick oif how Burton became corporate, so 3 of the lead Burton designers left to create Rome. Anyway, Burton is not the great company everyone makes them out to be, and thats why i will never buy a board/bindings/boots from them.

[dontxstopxme]

I have a friend who JUST started snowboarding and got all decked out on expensive ass Burton gear, when I asked her why she said it was because she didn't know anything about snowboarding and since Burton was such a well-known brand, she was sure she could trust them.

It's a pretty decent reason, but it would've been a lot easier to ask me to help her out so she wouldn't spend 1000$ on a sport she only does to spend time with friends.

[Forum_4ever]

Personally when I was young (late 90's) the crew that i boarded with was so anti burton that i didn't if know that they made snowboards until i was like a freshmen in high school. I couldn't afford that ****. Im with you. The Companies that i looked up to where all the four star products ( Forum, Foursquare, Special,& Jeenus ) and when they where bought out buy burton i was so pissed off i could have killed somebody. Because in my opinion that was there biggest competition for a long time. Forum had some of the most style along with there teams style and the classic Resistance video. But there is one that that i rock that is burton and that is my golves i will always trust burton for gloves.

[booboo]

I ride a Burton 00/01 Rippey with 00/01 customs and it has never given me problems at all. Except the toe strap breaking and it being difficult to find a replacement. The sole reason I bought Burton is because of the warranty. I can go anywhere in the world and have my board warrantied by an authorised dealer. I do not know of any other company that does this.

The second board I ever bought was a Ride in Colorado in 98 that started delaminating within 2 weeks. Rides response: send it back to the factory at your cost and we will then take 6 weeks to inspect it and send it back to you, again at your cost and because you will be in NZ that cost will be quite high. (But, if you want to stop by the factory we will gladly kick you in the nuts for free). By that time I would have been back in NZ after a week at Whistler. Original cost of the board: US$250, shipping costs to get it warrantied: US$300. So, not only would I not have a board to finish the season with or use in Canadia, I would have to pay more than the board cost to have it sent back to me. I told them to get ****ed.

Compare this with a friend who bought a Burton in Queenstown, NZ and when it broke walked into a shop in Breckenridge and walked out with a brand new next seasons board after one quick phone call to Burton.

I will NEVER buy anything made by Ride again but will definitely be buying Burton again. Unless Rome wants to offer me the same warranty package. They look like they got some quite nice boards.

Gosh, this was seven years ago and I am still angry. Maybe some sort of therapy is in order.

[Matt Waz]

Compare this with a friend who bought a Burton in Queenstown, NZ and when it broke walked into a shop in Breckenridge and walked out with a brand new next seasons board after one quick phone call to Burton.

The board shouldn't of broke in the first place.

[booboo]

The board shouldn't of broke in the first place.

What an amazingly well rounded argument covering all aspects of the situation at hand. This astonishing conclusion has rendered me a changed man. Down with Burton! I cower in the face of your superior debating skills.

[snowboardnguy90]

hmm i think that's cuz burton can afford it... they can easily piss on 1000 boards a month... still that's pretty awesome of them.

[Grill]

I ride a Burton 00/01 Rippey with 00/01 customs and it has never given me problems at all. Except the toe strap breaking and it being difficult to find a replacement. The sole reason I bought Burton is because of the warranty. I can go anywhere in the world and have my board warrantied by an authorised dealer. I do not know of any other company that does this.

The second board I ever bought was a Ride in Colorado in 98 that started delaminating within 2 weeks. Rides response: send it back to the factory at your cost and we will then take 6 weeks to inspect it and send it back to you, again at your cost and because you will be in NZ that cost will be quite high. (But, if you want to stop by the factory we will gladly kick you in the nuts for free). By that time I would have been back in NZ after a week at Whistler. Original cost of the board: US$250, shipping costs to get it warrantied: US$300. So, not only would I not have a board to finish the season with or use in Canadia, I would have to pay more than the board cost to have it sent back to me. I told them to get ****ed.

Compare this with a friend who bought a Burton in Queenstown, NZ and when it broke walked into a shop in Breckenridge and walked out with a brand new next seasons board after one quick phone call to Burton.

I will NEVER buy anything made by Ride again but will definitely be buying Burton again. Unless Rome wants to offer me the same warranty package. They look like they got some quite nice boards.

Gosh, this was seven years ago and I am still angry. Maybe some sort of therapy is in order.

I can definately understand your point about customer service and the amount of weight put on it for future purchases. Ride was still a relitively small company in '98, and they're service is a lot better now. For instance, when the '03 Prophets delamed, they replaced them at their own cost. Then again, if you're happy with Burton there's no need to switch to another company.

[booboo]

I can definately understand your point about customer service and the amount of weight put on it for future purchases. Ride was still a relitively small company in '98, and they're service is a lot better now. For instance, when the '03 Prophets delamed, they replaced them at their own cost. Then again, if you're happy with Burton there's no need to switch to another company.

Although I am happy with my Burton stuff I would be willing to try other companies if they were willing to stand behind their products 100% the way Burton does. Even if Ride's service is better now, they will still not replace a board unless it was bought back to the original point of purchase (as far as I am aware) so if I buy a board in the US and bring it back to NZ and it breaks I am still screwed. At least with Burton I know i am covered. My allegiance is more to their warranty than to anything else.

Some of the Rome boards look pretty sweet. I wouldn't mind picking up one of them if their warranty will cover me in my travels.

[snowboardnguy90]

yea rome boards do look kinda hot, from what i've heard rite now it's just a few of Burton's old designers hu broke off from the company

[Never_Autumn]

I was pretty skeptical about riding a Burton. I had heard that they were pretty heavy, and since they are very large, they build boards in a mass production kinda way, so I wasn't sure if they would take special care like other smaller companies that still only work on the board, and not a clothing line. Anyways, I rented a 04/05 Custom last Christmas and I can say I was extremely happy with it. It rode amazingly and felt great. It wasn't too heavy at all and rocked.

So after that, I would buy a Burton, although I still want to get my hands on a Never Summer Premier. But that is for another topic.

[wootang71]

people buy burton because of their branding as industry leader. most new riders have only heard of burton. burton's distribution is one of the widest. people assume that as industry leader, your product is 'the best', and that you're the strongest comany. when the truth is, burton buys their boards from the same factories that most every other brand does as well. boards made from the same materials, machines, and people. after reading a couple of pages on this thread, i've noticed a lot of myths about burton and the snowboard industry in general. a lot of people assume that burton is the biggest snowboard company. it is not. a lot of people have supported certain boards from one company, trashed boards from another company, when the truth is, they're the same board with different graphics. buy what turns you on, not what you think turns other people on. snowboarding saves lives!

[snowboardnguy90]

boards aren't necessarily the same things with diff graphics... what the board is made of changes how long it lasts and how well it pops. A lot of other things go into boards also... but since i'm not thoroughly schooled in that subject i won't continue

[e.]

u cant really say anyone company is better then all the others, but just maybe there is a reason to why burton owns a good chunk of the market. u dont stay in bussiness for like twenty or whatever long years and become a leader in the industry if u suck and dont have a good product. does burton have some crap gear - yes, but they are also pretty descent for beginner riders. are burton prices high, and get higher every year - yes, but so does the market. how ever, every year most companies just put a new graphic on, while burton normally improves the tech on almost everyboard every year. and anyone is going to be dis'ing who ever is on top.

[wootang71]

i am schooled in the industry, and when i tell you that burton buys their boards from the same place that others get theirs from, it's true. my company buys our boards from the same place. in austria.

as for being industry leader, these are the assumptions placed on burton by consumers. "of course" they have the best product. that's why they're industry leader. no, they're industry leader because they're first. burton invented the category of the snowboard. and as a luxury of being industry leader, all they have to do is not screw up.

do you think windows is a better product than, oh say, osx? if you say yes, than most likely it's because windows is a more accepted form of os. when in fact, an open source os like unix (on which os x is based) is a more stable os system.

what is quality? does a rolex keep better time than a timex? does a waterman write better than a bic? does a burton ride better than another brand? no! but only if you believe it does! make up your own mind! automatons are all around us!

[Grill]

what is quality? does a rolex keep better time than a timex? does a waterman write better than a bic? does a burton ride better than another brand? no! but only if you believe it does! make up your own mind! automatons are all around us!


Interesting analogy. Until a few years ago Rolex movements were built by Zenith, which actually keep slightly better time than the now Rolex built movements. Just goes to show that sometimes it's better to let someone else do the job if they do it better.

[e.]

i am schooled in the industry, and when i tell you that burton buys their boards from the same place that others get theirs from, it's true. my company buys our boards from the same place. in austria.

as for being industry leader, these are the assumptions placed on burton by consumers. "of course" they have the best product. that's why they're industry leader. no, they're industry leader because they're first. burton invented the category of the snowboard. and as a luxury of being industry leader, all they have to do is not screw up.

do you think windows is a better product than, oh say, osx? if you say yes, than most likely it's because windows is a more accepted form of os. when in fact, an open source os like unix (on which os x is based) is a more stable os system.

what is quality? does a rolex keep better time than a timex? does a waterman write better than a bic? does a burton ride better than another brand? no! but only if you believe it does! make up your own mind! automatons are all around us!


if burton is the industry leader for the simple reason of being being the first, then why isnt Sims as big or as popular of a company. and thanks for helping me prove my point that u are always going to be dis'ing who ever is on top.

[Y8S]

Just because Burton owns most of the snowboard industry means in no way that they are the best. That means they have a monopoly over the industry, and makes it hard for other componies to compete with them. I always hear of Burton boards breaking constantly, even after like 3 rides. Why would people want to buy boards that break? Anyways they don't have the best riders on thier team either. People look up to Shaun White as a god, when the reality is someone like Danny Kass could beat him in pipe any day. Burton has become to corporate anyway, they focus too much on making money, and do not spend enough focus on making boards that don't break. This is the main reason the compony Rome started, because they were sick oif how Burton became corporate, so 3 of the lead Burton designers left to create Rome. Anyway, Burton is not the great company everyone makes them out to be, and thats why i will never buy a board/bindings/boots from them. Never once did you back up any of your statements. It's a shame because this was a good argument. A monopoly is when consumers have no choice in what service/product they use. This is obviously not the case with Burton. If you've never owned a Burton product, then why the gripe? I think people use 3rd person opinions way too much, and aren't smart enough to make up their own minds. Good luck going through life like that. And we try so hard to make boards that will last for years. With our HQ next door to Stowe, we kill our stuff everyday, constantly tweaking and improving. I have never broken a board when I wasn't doing something stupid, and I doubt anyone else has either. Things do not "just break while riding along".

[wootang71]

if burton is the industry leader for the simple reason of being being the first, then why isnt Sims as big or as popular of a company. and thanks for helping me prove my point that u are always going to be dis'ing who ever is on top.


yeah, i guess i kinda skimmed over that 'being first' point. back in the day, there were a handful of companies that were 'pioneering' snowboarding including burton, barfoot, sims, among others. what i'm about to write can't be substantiated, but i think that burton is the industry leader today is because it's a well run business since day 1. also keep in mind that there can only be 1 industry leader at a time. there isn't 1 reason for why burton is where it is, it's a combination of events.

i personally don't dig burton's stuff, except for their bindings before the cap strap crap. (i use cfx baseplates, c14 leather straps, and mission dark highbacks. finally a binding i like!) my point is that snowboarding isn't a product based industry, and people should buy what turns them on. not what some marketing focus group 3000 miles away says to. i feel like a sucker whenever i buy anything marketed towards me. so is burton's gear 'the best'? some people think so. when the reality is that many of the same factories that assemble their product do so for the rest of the industry as well. this isn't a spaceshuttle! it's a piece of wood and plastic that slides down piles of snow! the era of winning acceptance is over. now is the time to support brands that make snowboarding better!

[Negrodomaus]

Burton's the best for the same reson Nike is. Superior product, and a name you know that is highly advertised. The price isn't always right, but you get what you pay for in most cases.

[Y8S]

All very good arguments. And excellent use of punctuation.

[tylerars24]

The way I see it is that Burton is the Honda of snowboards. You can ride them til you think it'll give up on you, but then you end up putting another 100k miles on it.



i like it. but hondas suck!

BMW mofo.

my E30 325i will whoop any honda.

ive seen them with 475K ever seen a ricer with that?

NO.

yea burton is nice.

[Grill]

i like it. but hondas suck!

BMW mofo.

my E30 325i will whoop any honda.

ive seen them with 475K ever seen a ricer with that?

NO.

yea burton is nice.

Yes I have, I worked for Honda for four years. On the other hand, I blew the engine in my BMW after a month and they wouldn't cover it under warrenty. Just goes to show how much more personal experience shapes your perception than a peers experience.

Oh and Honda hasn't been number one in DQR for the better part of a decade for nothing. :P

PS- How much oil does your m20 burn?

[no7ah]

One side note.... Burton must have something going on that people don't like these days... Take the guys who started ROME boards. Supposedly ex-Burton guys who weren't happy with the way Burton was progressing. (I'm slightly iased because I have a Rome board.)

There is one thing I really hate about Burton equip. Specifically their boards and bindings. It's the style/graphics. Because Burton is so popular, they need to play it safe with their graphics, as not to turn people off. Which actually has the opposite affect on me. I like the companies that are a bit edgier in their look.

The smaller shops may not have big R&D budgets, but the employees of those places have a bigger voice. They tend to be more involved from the ground up, and therefore more innovative. Sure, sometimes the product may not work the way it was supposed to, but with risk there is no reward.
Burton can't afford to take risks, they're like the family snowboard company. when some one walks into a shop that's never rode before they head straight to burton, and moms not getting little eric the libtech with the blue lady that has bolts for nipples.
I love burtons graphics though yeah i know i'm a whore but whatever in 05/06 artist took ahold of the graphics themes and all. Shauns board was done by the artist from Spawn, the se7en series had a bunch of well known graffiti artists from new york. Each board and its graphic has a story.

[SimonInAustralia]

Just because Burton owns most of the snowboard industry means in no way that they are the best. That means they have a monopoly over the industry, and makes it hard for other componies to compete with them. I always hear of Burton boards breaking constantly, even after like 3 rides. Why would people want to buy boards that break? Anyways they don't have the best riders on thier team either. People look up to Shaun White as a god, when the reality is someone like Danny Kass could beat him in pipe any day. Burton has become to corporate anyway, they focus too much on making money, and do not spend enough focus on making boards that don't break. This is the main reason the compony Rome started, because they were sick oif how Burton became corporate, so 3 of the lead Burton designers left to create Rome. Anyway, Burton is not the great company everyone makes them out to be, and thats why i will never buy a board/bindings/boots from them.You are a fu cking tool.

Burtons do not all break after 3 rides, what a load of sh!t.

Burton do have some of the best riders on their team...Terje, Shaun, DCP, Romian, Nicolas Muller, Gigi, Solberg, Jussi, Jeremy Jones, Keir Dillon, Trevor Andrew, Ross Powers, etc., etc. These riders ARE among the best there are.

If Danny Kass was a better rider, then he would win the comps, but he ain't gonna win if he fu cks up his pipe runs, which he does, and he loses. So in reality, if Danny Kass can't ride a clean pipe run, he ain't gonna win, and he ain't gonna beat Shaun.

You have so much hate for Burton that you are blinded to the facts...fu cking idiot!

[no7ah]

You are a fu cking tool.

Burtons do not all break after 3 rides, what a load of sh!t.

Burton do have some of the best riders on their team...Terje, Shaun, DCP, Romian, Nicolas Muller, Gigi, Solberg, Jussi, Jeremy Jones, Keir Dillon, Trevor Andrew, Ross Powers, etc., etc. These riders ARE among the best there are.

If Danny Kass was a better rider, then he would win the comps, but he ain't gonna win if he fu cks up his pipe runs, which he does, and he loses. So in reality, if Danny Kass can't ride a clean pipe run, he ain't gonna win, and he ain't gonna beat Shaun.

You have so much hate for Burton that you are blinded to the facts...fu cking idiot!
tool word i was looking for lol. kid has no idea what he's talking about. yeah kass is a great rider but when you get 10+ feet out of the pipe and hit the deck with your ass... well hate to say it but that's not a first place run to me.

[no7ah]

The board shouldn't of broke in the first place.
boards break from ever company. ride it hard enough and it'll give out just like everything else in the world.

[snobug]

I have always bought Burton stuff, although not exclusively. My current board is a Burton, although I did buy a K2 a few yrs ago. Burton was around (a smaller company) back when I started riding in the late 80's, and I started buying their stuff back then. So I guess I've just stuck with it through the years, not really thought about it. But they have grown sooo much more from those days. It's kinda weird to see how big they've become.

[gtarman77787]

i think with all the money burton has... they shuold be doing something good with it for kids ... like giving them scholarships n stuff
i think that'd be awesome
seriously ... how would you feel to say to your friends that you got a scholarship from Burton?
i think it'd be quite awesome

[no7ah]

i think with all the money burton has... they shuold be doing something good with it for kids ... like giving them scholarships n stuff
i think that'd be awesome
seriously ... how would you feel to say to your friends that you got a scholarship from Burton?
i think it'd be quite awesome
They do help with stuff like that, and they also have their own program called Chill to get inner city kids on the slopes and off the streets

[Fae]

They are doing something good for kids...Ever heard of their Chill program?

http://www.burton.com/chill/default.asp


Oops...MC beat me to it...oh well, the link's still there.

[honiedew]

i started with all burton too just because its sorta like a household name you can rely on when you're new to the sport or if you're not too familiar with the sport. their name is everywhere, so if you're new, how can u not pay attention to them? for example, lets compare rome and burton. if you are completely new to the sport and want to get new gear, basing on the amount of information available on their websites and etc, wouldn't you want to stick to burton? just because they offer more information on their company, products, and encourage you to the sport. rome has minimal details except maybe in mags and etc. i honestly dont think i wouldve ever gottem a rome board if i havent heard any feedback from other riders. i think burton does alot for the snowboarding community, they encourage people into the sport (ie: progression parks, LTR programs, demo tours, etc), i definitely think burton overcharges, their quality is iffy when it comes to different products, but everyone i know who owns a high end b board has been very satisfied. it's just a tradeoff you have to make for a household name i think.

[grrrrr]

As much as people don't want to like Burton, because the whole Corporate thing, they really make good product, and do a lot of good for the snowboard industry. I personally do not buy anything based upon name. When buying new stuff you should really try everything and not jump on a specific bandwagon. By the way I love my Burton P1's. Bottom line-Demo boards, wear your boots for hours before riding with them, and buy clothes you are down with, cause if it's good for you, that's all that matters.

[bluhavoc]

It's hard to say no to buying burton gear when its the first you see at most snowboarding shops. Especially if you are new to snowboarding. You can find it almost everywhere. It's great marketing and it helps when you stuff last. Too me it's all about finding a good deal. I tend to by the previous years gear brand new the next season. So why not wait a year to get that bomb a$$ Burton jacket with the Ipod hook up.

[phrenic345]

I just want to say I've been riding my burton floater for over 8 years now and it's still going strong, so I would say burton is pretty good in my opinion. I also just want to p[oint out that this is like the 5 millionth thread I've seen where everyone has it out over Burton's supposed quality or lack-there-of. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO BUY IT!!! and these debates go nowhere. Why doesn't someone start a thread on the quality of Rome or Arbor or any of the other companies that make up the other 2/3 of the boards sold in the US and abroad???

[Fae]

Can't say why there aren't threads about other companies' quality, but I will point out that this is an almost year old thread that someone bumped to the top, so that's why there are a couple of similar threads right now.

[phrenic345]

Yeah, I'm just saying I think we are all well aware of the pros and cons and personal biases about Burton. Fact is, there is no such thing as bad publicity and because people keep discussing this really only serves to affirm that Burton is probably the biggest, most innovative fish in the snowboarding pond. Like it or not, any smaller company's products will be compared and contrasted with Burton first. I admit I'm a Burton-head myself, but I'm always interested in different stuff, and I'm just asking all these haters out there to tell me WHY they think non-Burton products are better (I realize there is some good stuff in this thread on non-Burton stuff, but still).

[SnoChica]

Burton can't afford to take risks, they're like the family snowboard company. when some one walks into a shop that's never rode before they head straight to burton, and moms not getting little eric the libtech with the blue lady that has bolts for nipples.
I love burtons graphics though yeah i know i'm a whore but whatever in 05/06 artist took ahold of the graphics themes and all. Shauns board was done by the artist from Spawn, the se7en series had a bunch of well known graffiti artists from new york. Each board and its graphic has a story.
They are getting a bit better. This year's lineup was better than last in the graphics dept. And as Fae mentioned, this was an OLD thread that got bumped to the top. The GTwin is actually a pretty cool looking board if you ask me. And MC, you're right, it is the "family board company"... so that anyone can feel comfy and safe buying little Bobby ar Sally their boards.

I, however, tend to prefer boards with a little more style. I'd just like to see Burton continue to progress down that path.

Oh... and about WHY BURTON... because they warrantied my pants in less than 48hrs. No questions asked!

[Type_0]

Is it me or does it seem like there are so many ppl that are all about burton gear. I don't know if they are the bigest company but big or popular companies doesn't mean they are the best. There are a ton of other companies out there that make some really great gear, so why burton?

cuz its the coool thing to do.

[IceCoastChick]

Oh... and about WHY BURTON... because they warrantied my pants in less than 48hrs. No questions asked!

What was wrong with the pants?

Every store with snowboard gear that I've ever been in carries burton and it's as much a household name as tony hawk or shaun white these days. I think that for a company with such a good rep, they could improve the quality of some of their lower priced stuff. Their higher end boards and bindings though are definitely good.

[SnoChica]

What was wrong with the pants?

Every store with snowboard gear that I've ever been in carries burton and it's as much a household name as tony hawk or shaun white these days. I think that for a company with such a good rep, they could improve the quality of some of their lower priced stuff. Their higher end boards and bindings though are definitely good.
The seat of the pants faded and turned grey with 5-8 wears and lost it's waterproofing almost immediately. (I strap in standing 80% of the time, and don't fall on my a$$ all THAT much that the rear should be worn to greay) I was bitching about it as soon as I got them. Hopefully, it really was just a manufacturer defect and the new pair will hold up better.

[ian]

yeah, burton gear is pricey but how is that diffrent from any high end gear. and yes burton is high end, ive put my custom x through hell and other than cracked top lamination it works even better than the first day i rode it.

and from the binding point of view .. bindings ARE going to break, and its real easy to walk into any shop and find almost pretty much any part you need, i cant say the same for the other high end companys.

edit- as for soft goods... i got brand new burton mits this year that worked AWSOMELY that is untill they started comming apart at the seems less than 3 months after paying 85$ for them i havent yet tried to use the waranty on them as im not sure if that applys to soft goods. I also have a new pair of driverx's and they worked perfectly for what i wanted them for, but the lace slots are already 1 more ride away from snapping. Again im not sure on the waranty on soft goods, but if its half what it is for boards n bindings i wot beable to say anything bad about them.

[SnoChica]

yeah, burton gear is pricey but how is that diffrent from any high end gear. and yes burton is high end, ive put my custom x through hell and other than cracked top lamination it works even better than the first day i rode it.

and from the binding point of view .. bindings ARE going to break, and its real easy to walk into any shop and find almost pretty much any part you need, i cant say the same for the other high end companys.

edit- as for soft goods... i got brand new burton mits this year that worked AWSOMELY that is untill they started comming apart at the seems less than 3 months after paying 85$ for them i havent yet tried to use the waranty on them as im not sure if that applys to soft goods. I also have a new pair of driverx's and they worked perfectly for what i wanted them for, but the lace slots are already 1 more ride away from snapping. Again im not sure on the waranty on soft goods, but if its half what it is for boards n bindings i wot beable to say anything bad about them.
Warranty them... According to the website, mine shouldn't have been covered, but let them decide. It's a grey area... whether it's misuse or defect is the decision to be made. Mine was obviously a defect... worst that can happen is you get them sent back.

[NitroCanis]

I used to be totally against Burton snowboards until I got my Custom X because I always thought Burton was overpriced and their products aren't that high quality but sell because they're Burton.

But Burton does make good high-end gears even though the price point isn't always right... and my attitude about Burton changed this year when I realized that the local Burton rep was really the only one that took care of the "lesser-known (or virtually unknown) amateur-athletes" when I needed new gears... some of the reps from other companies wouldn't even give me the time of day.

The Burton rep hooked me up with the Custom X for under $250, so I guess I can't complain...

I was the same way, however I did like their apparel, I have a pair of ronin pants and a red ronin jacket, and I love them both, they keep me super dry and warm, im never cold with this gear on :) and recently my dad has tried the burton mission and said they were very comfortable, when I went to the Burton sale store near my house, the rep had persuaded me to think good of burton :) Next season im getting the Burton co2 binding, theyre super light, awesome lookin, and confortable, but probably pricey. I also see they have made alot of advances in the snowboarding industry, with the new vapor. I cant wait till next season :) But im ready for jetskiing in the bay :)

[SnoChica]

I wish Burton would make a line comparable to their Ronin line for girls. I hear nothing but good things about how warm and dry people stay in them.

[Coalition]

I've had Burton gear all my life, so that's my reason. I'm open to other companies, I've just never gotten around to researching which other boards would be good for me etc. I know what fits me with Burton, I know my sizes and it's just easy to shop for gear.

I'm not really into spending tons of time trying on jackets, pants etc. So I can just order online........that was probably the lamest reason ever, but it's truth.

Sooooo, anyone have any suggestions for a good free ride board?

[Brit]

burton has the best team of riders ever, and theyre always coming out with sweet stuff, and you can never get tired of riding one of their boards. its smooth like butter......

[short_beans]

also, i've had some of my non-snowboarding friends wear burton just because it's the "louis vuitton of snowboarding". it's more of a name thing than performance to them

[IceCoastChick]

I agree with lauri, there used to be different lines for the women's outerwear. Once there was an AK line. What happened? Now we're limited to crappy waterproofing.

[CrzyLikeAFoxx]

Classic Burton Hatred. I use to be against Burton. But when they were the only ones at Demo Day at my little Resort, they went up some points in my book. Then my Burton Boots broke and I called Customer Service. I had no reciept and they still hooked me up. Then I tried the Baron ES w/ some P1s on Demo and fell in love with the board and bindings. Bought the board, not the bindings yet. They take care of their customers(at least they took care of me).

[RideTheory]

Honestly, i havent noticed a HUGE difference in the High-End board pricing between the major manufactures...my Ride Theory was more than the Shaun White Burton (last seasons model) by 100$ but then again burton has some expensive gear...pants...forget about it..but i think most of the high-end bindings and boards are pretty comparable in price's...but i dont exactly keep up on board prices untill its time to shop for new gear

[missheather]

i actually have realized that burtons gear is seeming to become of less and less quality. i have so many firends who used to be all about burton gear, but after so many mishaps and so much wasted money, you begin to realize that quality is everything..

maybe its just me, and us northern california folk.
but i know its not just me who's sick of the overpriced tags for ****ty quality. everything (especially bindings) is becoming so flimsy....

[yawningisgood]

Burton makes some alright ****, like i love my Burton P1's with the capstraps, they are the most comfy bindings ive ever had... but they were kinda pricey at $280, but ive noticed that alot of other burton merch is pretty damn expensive, and not of the highest quality... I myself dont really like there clothing line, eg. jackets and pants... Ive never owned a pair, but then again its not like ive never touched, tryed on, did my research on it... i just dont like the quality they try to convey at such a high price, i myself would pick a number of companies for outerwear before i would stoop to getting burton stuff, like Sessions, Ride, 686, bonfire, mission six, i could go on... And ive never ridden a burton board, wait i take that back i rode my buddies burton ummm **** i forgot the name, but it was i think the cruiser.... anyway it had those plastic end protectors which pissed me off and made it look goofy and cheap, and it was a stiff, just not very nice board... I myself would choose a number of other board companies, for instance LIB TECH(i <3 lib), Gnu(same thing), option, m3, forum, jeenyus... so yeah id say the only cool things i would buy from burton would be bindings and just little accesories...(**** i spelled that wrong huh??)... like i just picked these up, some new white CAMO capstraps... for my P1's there pretty tight... hehe... later gatorshttp://www.snowboardconnection.com/product_photos/large/tn_CapStrap.jpg

[SimonInAustralia]

Burton makes some alright ****, like i love my Burton P1's with the capstraps, they are the most comfy bindings ive ever had... but they were kinda pricey at $280, but ive noticed that alot of other burton merch is pretty damn expensive, and not of the highest quality... I myself dont really like there clothing line, eg. jackets and pants... Ive never owned a pair, but then again its not like ive never touched, tryed on, did my research on it... i just dont like the quality they try to convey at such a high price, i myself would pick a number of companies for outerwear before i would stoop to getting burton stuff, like Sessions, Ride, 686, bonfire, mission six, i could go on... And ive never ridden a burton board, wait i take that back i rode my buddies burton ummm **** i forgot the name, but it was i think the cruiser.... anyway it had those plastic end protectors which pissed me off and made it look goofy and cheap, and it was a stiff, just not very nice board... I myself would choose a number of other board companies, for instance LIB TECH(i <3 lib), Gnu(same thing), option, m3, forum, jeenyus... so yeah id say the only cool things i would buy from burton would be bindings and just little accesories...(**** i spelled that wrong huh??)... like i just picked these up, some new white CAMO capstraps... for my P1's there pretty tight... hehe... later gatorsYou have never owned Burton outerwear, but you are basing your recommendation against it on having touched it and tried it on in a store...and you are basing your recommendation against Burton boards after having tried their low end beginner board.

Way to qualify your arguement! Seems like you're just looking for a way to hate them.

[NickDavid]

Is it me or does it seem like there are so many ppl that are all about burton gear. I don't know if they are the bigest company but big or popular companies doesn't mean they are the best. There are a ton of other companies out there that make some really great gear, so why burton?


Burton spends the most money on marketing and their products are excellent. From boots to boards, you can't go wrong with them. They LAST FOREVER. If you're against burton because they're a popular company, you're either 15 years old or retarded.

[FearMe]

Burton is nothing more than a name these days. They hit there hay day in the late 90's when they had some of the most bad ass technology on the market out there. Now there stuff leaves more to be desired.

Yes I am a Burton Hater and probably will be for the rest of my life. I've either owned or used every form of something that they produced. I've killed 5 of there boards, 1 pair of boots (4 hours), couple pairs of bindings. Numerous gloves, witnessed the deterioration of there outwear in 2 weeks time. I've worked for a Coalition shop and a none coalition shop.

Compared to companies that are also coming out of the Elan Factory they are over priced. Look at the technology in some of there boards, I.E. the Shaun White its a very low end board comparible to maybe a higher end entry level board. Lived with a semi pro shred that snapped 3 of them in half in about 3 weeks of riding. He snapped a Vapor 2 hours out up at the U.S open this year.

Burton also has some shady practices. Anyone that snow skates knows that the Bideck snowskate (Junk yard) was invented in Washington by a guy named STeve Frank. He spent 10 years perfecting this. Well Burton saw what he was doing and slapped a patent on it before he could. Blamo dudes out of business. Toe caps look at the whole T9/Burton law suit. In the end the judge just said screw it and let everyone have a patent on it.

If you want to ride a solid product like the first edition Customs before they went all gay sauce. Look at a Rome its the same designers from that time period.

Outerwear is now more about a fashion statement to Burton and they really do market themselves as more of an apparells company than a snowboard company. Seriously who needs to drop like 800 dollars on a frigging pink puffy matching suit? They put out more outer wear than there hard goods.

I'm not saying Burton hasn't done stuff for the Sport, but lately its more and more like they're out there to screw you in the pooch. I can remember when I was a valued customer on a first name basis with the warranty department. Now I'm just claim number 29485848x - 284848384 or something like that.

To this date my 152 Custom from 99 is my favorite board of all time. Next years Custom won't even be anything like any previous Customs. Heck the whole Burton line will be poo weiner.

Also look at some of there boards that are specifically marketed as Park. Dominant and UnInc series mainly. Dominant is a very poorly designed board. Super soft for being a rail board. Cracks easily. Uninc Yes because you know 2 screws is better than 3 to begin with. Wow way to limit people to only using your bindings. But hey I did see a kid rocking an Uninc with Drake bindings so obviously you can find a way around it. 2 holes makes that board weaker due to the amount of torque being put on it. Now I'm sure you can say "well the pro's never break it" Bullox to you! Anyone that is remotely hanging with Pro's sees them eat through boards like a fat kid at the Sizzler buffet.

All in all I'd have to say I can back up my claim about why I hate Burton. I can point out flaws and I've debated this topic on other forums to death. My biggest complaint is it seems that this site has a huge following of the "Anti-Burton bandwagon" with people that can't back up why they dislike them. Think for yourselves people.

[yawningisgood]

You have never owned Burton outerwear, but you are basing your recommendation against it on having touched it and tried it on in a store...and you are basing your recommendation against Burton boards after having tried their low end beginner board.

Way to qualify your arguement! Seems like you're just looking for a way to hate them.

First of all i never said i hated burton, did u not read that i HAVE some of there bindings, the P1's, and i do have some of there gloves... So i DO NOT HATE THEM, so stop putting words in my mouth... second of all read below on Fearme's Reply, sounds like he has ALOT of experience with the subject... third, you must be hating on people that dont buy EVERYTHING BURTON!!! i like to buy products that are GOOD quality, dont get me wrong they have some good stuff... but theres better i say, in quality, design, style, price, etc... So before u start saying im just looking for a way to hate em' think about what your saying. AND IF EVERYONE AND THERE BROTHER WORE BURTON JACKETS, PANTS, BOOTS, GLOVES, SOCKS, BEANIES, THERMALS, SHIRTS, RODE BURTON BOARDS, BINDINGS, HAD BURTON BACKPACKS, TRAVEL BAGS, AND COVERED THERE CAR IN BURTON STICKERS, THE WORLD WOULD BE A SAD SAD PLACE... ITS CALLED DIVERSITY...as for boards LIBTECH 4 LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!