Southwest Riding

[punkrock89]

Durin Winter Break next year, I'm gonna be visiting family in northern Arizona, about 100 miles from Flagstaff. I hear that they've got riding in Flagstaff. Has anyone been? How is it? What are some good places in the surrounding area (Nevada, New Mexico, and southern Utah)? Also, in February, my family is going to Vegas, but since I'm not 21, Vegas would suck, so I'm gonna go boarding. What are some places near Vegas?

[Grill]

Snobowl. It's gash. Go to Telluride or Big Bear instead. Sunrise is an option but depending on conditions may not be worth the drive.

[punkrock89]

Yeah, I saw Snowbowl's website, and it looked like something frome the EC, but with better snow. And I don't want some p*ssy sh*t that I can get here in the east, I want something challenging that I can't get here.

[Jibberific]

Are you kidding, snowbowl is where it's at. As long as there's snow.

You got it twisted if you think snowbowl is in the same league as your average crappy eastern resort. They have about 2300' lift-served vertical, plus almost another 1000' that's hikeable above the treeline. Correct me if i'm wrong but nowhere in the east even comes close to that, except for maybe Whiteface or Sugarloaf.

The mountain itself is about 800 acres but the trail map makes it look smaller cause there are so few trails.. The trees here are where you find the really good stuff. As far as Sunrise goes, don't bother. It's a flat, boring mountain, and the park is a total joke compared to Snowbowl's. Also, all the employees at Sunrise are apache indians who hate white people for obvious reasons.

Las vegas has a mountain that's about 1/10 the size of snowbowl. Colorado is sort of close but super pricey. And brian head in UT is sort of in the area but it's a total pain to get to because of road closures. So if you are in AZ Snowbowl will have everything you need and more, trust me.

http://img.timeinc.net/skiing/content/images/azsnowbowl/skgazs1m.jpg
all that is hikeable, up to about 12,300. if you can still breathe up there.

[Grill]

Dude, Snowbowl is terrible. I understand that you want to represent your home mountain, but don't do it to the point of delusion. 3300' vertical is a joke, especially when you board it in all of 5 minutes and it's not even close to challenging. At least Sunrise has two peaks and is the more snow-sure of the two (amazing what you can do when you have cannons). Plus you don't have to deal with all the NAU kids.

[grenade_154]

this is right off the whiteface site(and ive hiked it) Summit Elevation: 4,386'. there is also another 500' to hike after that, just a little side note.

[punkrock89]

I didn't see exactly how much evalation and stuff on Snowbowl's site, but I deff saw the trail map, and there's only a handfull of trails. From what I've seen, Snowshoe, WV is better than Snowbowl, so there are EC places that can compete. How often does Snowbowl and the other resorts get snow? How are the typical conditions?

[Grill]

Two or three years ago Snowbowl only opened for one day. I'd be a bit pissed off if I had a season pass.

[punkrock89]

Damn! One day!?! That's worse than any EC place this season. Don't they blow snow? I mean, the EC sucks, but atleast we can blow snow.

[Grill]

Nope, Snowbowl doesn't have cannons for environmental reasons.

[punkrock89]

That sucks. So what other places are around the Holbrook area? Where do you normally ride, Grill?

[get me out of GA]

He'll say France... bet you $5

[punkrock89]

He's from Phoenix... hence why he knows so much about the local scene in AZ.

[get me out of GA]

yeah, and he's been riding in France..... do you not keep up on recent threads or just spend all your time in the shoutbox?

[punkrock89]

I used to spend all my time in the SB, but it's been dead since the season ended, so I'm started to post more now.... and up untill a few days ago, I didn't post too often cuz I had a bunch of sh*t going on. Now that you mention it, he has posted quite a few times about a trip to France that a chick from the UK is trying to get together. ...Yeah, I'm a dumbass, but whatever.

[punkrock89]

...So Grill, to rephrase my question, where do you typically ride in Arizona?

[Grill]

Been riding in France the past 3 seasons. :D

But when I did ride AZ I rode Sunrise. My buddies usually do Telluride and Big Bear.

[punkrock89]

Isn't Big Bear in Cali though? Where's Sunrise and Telluride at?

[Grill]

Yeah, Big Bear is in Cali. Sunrise is in Eastern Arizona and Telluride is in Colorado.

[punkrock89]

How's Elk Ridge? What about Mnt. Lemmon?

[Grill]

I've never been to either so I can't say.

[Jibberific]

they are never open

but if your relatives live closer to sunrise then it's definitely worth going there more, just be prepared to deal with hordes of mexican tourists on weekends, endless flat spots (honestly) and shoddy park features likely built by someone who has neither skied nor snowboarded.

[Jibberific]

I didn't see exactly how much evalation and stuff on Snowbowl's site, but I deff saw the trail map, and there's only a handfull of trails. From what I've seen, Snowshoe, WV is better than Snowbowl, so there are EC places that can compete. How often does Snowbowl and the other resorts get snow? How are the typical conditions?


Dont judge it by the map. The smallest lift there is probably bigger than any of the ones in WV. the scale of the mountain is a lot bigger. And it gets pretty steep.

On a good snow year there is lots of powder, a few years ago they opened around thanksgiving and had over 450" of snow for the whole season. For a while sunrise and snowbowl both had 120-140 inch base depths during the wettest part of the season, and i think the snowpack was comparable the year prior if i remember correctly.

but its true that the snow has been scarce the past couple years.. whatever though, snowbowl got like 100 something inches total this year but i still went up and shredded and loved it, bare spots and all.

[punkrock89]

Thanks for the info. Do you know anything about resorts in New Mexico or Nevada?

[Jibberific]

haven't been to any of them, but from what i've gathered the ones in NM tend to get a bit more snow than AZ during a given season. The closest ones are probably Sandia peak and Ski santa fe, but if you're driving that far you might as well go to wolf creek, silverton, or telluride. Ski las vegas is the only one in nevada within driving distance and it's super tiny. Their vertical is only about 800 feet and i'm pretty sure they were open fewer days than snowbowl was this year.

[Grill]

Dont judge it by the map. The smallest lift there is probably bigger than any of the ones in WV. the scale of the mountain is a lot bigger. And it gets pretty steep.

On a good snow year there is lots of powder, a few years ago they opened around thanksgiving and had over 450" of snow for the whole season. For a while sunrise and snowbowl both had 120-140 inch base depths during the wettest part of the season, and i think the snowpack was comparable the year prior if i remember correctly.

but its true that the snow has been scarce the past couple years.. whatever though, snowbowl got like 100 something inches total this year but i still went up and shredded and loved it, bare spots and all.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Steep! You crack me up.

[Jibberific]

whatever frenchy, mister alps man

you are really taking the piss.

why must you be so aggravating it's unnecessary

[Grill]

Bro, I did every trail with no issues my first week on a board. The off-piste stuff is a joke too. I understand that it's your "home" resort so you want to defend it, but it doesn't change the fact that it's small and dull. That's why I suggested places that aren't too far and aren't too gash. There's no point in misrepresenting Snowbowl as if this kid goes he's going to find out for himself.

[Beacho]

On a good snow year there is lots of powder, a few years ago they opened around thanksgiving and had over 450" of snow for the whole season. For a while sunrise and snowbowl both had 120-140 inch base depths during the wettest part of the season, and i think the snowpack was comparable the year prior if i remember correctly.


I remember that year, it was amazing, I was up there every weekend. Sunrise is decent, the Indians suck up there and be careful there are tons of DPS up there, TRUST ME! But you can hit up Bear/Summit is 5-6 hours and Durango/Telluride is like 6-7(i drive like a madman)

[Jibberific]

grill you are right man, my first time there was like my 4th day ever on a board and i basically tackled everything they had to offer from the top down. i am just partial to snowbowl but like you said if i wasn't from arizona i don't think i would really even bother with it. but still. there is fun to be had there.

[punkrock89]

What's DPS, Beacho? If I remember corectly, I think my family's place isn't too far from Holbrook, so I'll probably end up going to New Mexico, southwestern Colorado, or southern Utah. I might go to Snowbowl if I just want a quick session without driving several hours and the conditions are good... maybe go there to teach my little cousin or something.

[Grill]

DPS = Department of Public Safety.

I've never had an issue with the Native Americans at Sunrise or the fuzz for that matter...

[punkrock89]

Oh... so cops/security guards basically?

A lot of people say be ware of a certain group of people in different areas, wether it's Blacks in the ghetto, Native Americans in certain places in the SW, or whatever. But as long as your cool, and treat them with respect, you'll most likely won't have a problem. Whenever I'm in the ghetto, and walking down the street or whatever, and I see a guy who looks like a gang-banger, I say what's up. But maybe I'm just an optimistic douche...

[Jibberific]

DPS is highway patrol

and i have had huge problems and numerous run ins with them over the years and they are not very nice guys.

[punkrock89]

Huh. I guess I haven't even really seen a Native since I moved from North Dakota to Virginia. They're probably, and rightfully so, still pissed at white people. lol.

[Jibberific]

i'm talking about the cops, they love giving tickets

[punkrock89]

Oh.... yeah, cops in North Carolina are like that, especially in the Outer Banks. They'll give you a ticket for 5 over. I saw this show, and these people were being hassled by a cop in AZ for going like 6 over, and he said that he wouldnt even let them by with 1 over. He ended up just givning them a warning though.

[Grill]

i'm talking about the cops, they love giving tickets

Maybe you shouldn't speed. :D

I've been pulled over by DPS once on the way to Sunrise, but he gave me a warning. Maybe it's because I look so good...

[ski_dude]

Ski Santa Fe, Wolf Creek. I hope that counts as real Southwest.

Da goods.

[Beacho]

DPS is highway patrol

and i have had huge problems and numerous run ins with them over the years and they are not very nice guys.

:grin: They have nothing better to do than pull people over out there, I was going the speed the limit, it was supposedly to check my tint out at 10pm at night???? ****ty part was going all the way back up there to fight it and win in court.

[Jibberific]

http://www.summitpost.org/images/original/91282.jpg
Here's a good picture i found that shows a lot of the hikeable terrain at snowbowl. the little white stripe just left of center is the highest run at the resort. you can ride basically any line you see here, as long as there is enough snow and you have a free backcountry hiking permit and you know what you are doing.
http://www.summitpost.org/images/original/97639.jpgThis one is from above the top of the lift, looking the opposite direction as above. the trail system at snowbowl is pretty lacking but this can make up for it, cause it is pretty gnarly up top. Well for you and me maybe but not for Grill, who apparently was shredding stuff like this within minutes of exiting the womb. :D

[punkrock89]

Yeah that looks pretty sweet. I hope Snowbowl gets a bunch of snow when I go during Winter Break. I'll probably go there, Santa Fe, and that place in SW Colorado that Grill was talking about (I forgot the name of it). How do you get the back country pass? I've never ridden BC, but I know some stuff about mountain survival and have good common sense, so I think I could handle that kind of BC.

[punkrock89]

What are the average temps througout the season? Mostly wondering because the jacket I have is lined with fleece, and I get overheated in anything about 25-30*. ...I should probably buy a lighter jacket for early season and spring.

[Jibberific]

You can get the permits at the base lodge or at ranger stations in flagstaff. you don't need one if you are just hiking the bowl above the resort but if you're going on the other side of the ridge or up to the very very top, you'll have to get one. And they do decent avalanche mitigation during the winter so that all the hikers are safe.

Wolf creek is the best one in SW colorado, i think. You get a lot out of trips there, they have awesome above treeline terrain and there are never any people there. But if you want insanity check out silverton which is also in the area. Telluride and Durango are close too but i think they are more preferable for skiers, and more expensive.

And the weather can vary a lot when you're riding in AZ, from 60 degrees and bright sun to 10 degrees and blowing snow hard, it just depends. Thats why when i go i bring my thick jacket and a thin hoodie so i can decide what to wear when i get there.

[Grill]

The reason Snowbowl doesn't excite me:

Paradiski - 425km of trails and the largest off-piste area in Europe. I was there 2 seasons and going back next season.
http://web.schuss.be/halloween/halloween/Stations/pistes/par.jpg

Within 40 minutes of Espace Killy (370km of trails), La Rosiere (ski into Italy or Heliski) and 3 Valleys (600km of trails) is only an hour away.

Alpe d'Huez - 220km of trails including the Sarenne a 16km black and 4 separate runs with an elevation drop of 2000m or more.
http://www.ifyouski.com/graphics/ifyouski/photos/resorts/230004/m_a.jpg

The backside of the Pic Blanc has amazing off-piste:
http://www.la-grave.com/concoursphoto/reelle/fontaine/4.jpg

So does the front side down to resort:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/69/Chemineedumasclea.jpg

Les than an hour to Les 2 Alpes (230km of trails) and La Grave/La Meije (Largest designated off-piste resort in France) and an hour to Serre Chevalier (250km of trails).

With choices like these, would you recommend Snowbowl? :lol:

[Jibberific]

wow!!! that is really amazing. you are really lucky, how did you wind up over there? study abroad program, or are your parents in the military or something?

i'd love to go there sometime.. i even have taken 4 semesters of french in college

[Grill]

My mom is French and my dad is English, thus giving my a whole lot of passports. The fluent French does help quite a bit though...

[punkrock89]

WOW! You lucky bastard... I tried learning French a couple times, but both times both teachers were horrible. One missed like the entire school year, and the other just rambled on about random sh*t that had nothing to do with French. I can deff see why you wouldn't recomend Snowbowl after riding that! Geez...

[punkrock89]

Jibb, is there equipment you can rent to hike to the bc? Like snowshoes, shovel, gps locater, ect.? Or do you have to provide your own?

[Jibberific]

That is a good question because every time i've hiked it, i just started at the top of the lift with all my normal gear and rode back down to the resort side. There's a trail that goes upward you can follow and there are signs and all that. It is doable in regular snowboard boots and outerwear, no climbing equipment is necessary and they don't require you to have a beacon or probe or anything.

It's easiest to just hike up to a good starting point in the bowl and ride back down inbounds. But when you are wanting to venture on the other side of the ridge it gets trickier, because it tends to be very windy on the ridge and it's a difficult hike.. like if you slip and fall you will slide uncontrollably for a couple hundred yards and nail a tree. And if you drop your board it will be gone forever.

Most people i know who have hiked up and ridden down the other side are very experienced and avalanche aware. You can get cliffed out on the backside if you're not careful. You have to make your way down to a little dirt road in the basin and have someone pick you up so it's a lot of effort but apparently it's worth it. Google earth it and you'll see basically what its like.

[punkrock89]

Alright cool. I'll probably pick up some snowshoes from online and a pole and shovel and other basic kinda survival stuff. I got a pack, but it's small, and more meant for just carrying some extra stuff when you ride at a resort. Damn I'm excited about this winter! It's gonna be sweet. I'm gonna be a hell of a lot closer to the mountains in VA, so I'll be able to ride a lot more than ever before, going to AZ during break, and gonna go to Nevada in February. Now hopefully the weather will cooperate (sp?).

[Jibberific]

Yeah i mean this is all assuming that the snow will be okay, because if it's anything like this past year it'll be shall we say "a bit rocky" but if we have a good year it is mandatory.

Honestly though i wouldn't spend money on snowshoes, you are pretty much only hiking anywhere from 15 minutes up to an hour if you're going really high up there. If you just stay in the footprints of the people before you it'll be pretty simple.

[Grill]

Yeah i mean this is all assuming that the snow will be okay, because if it's anything like this past year it'll be shall we say "a bit rocky" but if we have a good year it is mandatory.

Honestly though i wouldn't spend money on snowshoes, you are pretty much only hiking anywhere from 15 minutes up to an hour if you're going really high up there. If you just stay in the footprints of the people before you it'll be pretty simple.


Word. Snowshoes are entirely unnecessary unless you're doing really gnarly off-piste that needs a couple hours to get to. You probably need a pole and shovel unless you're going with someone and have transceivers. I mean, what are you going to dig out?

[punkrock89]

Yeah true. What stuff should I take along (other than the basic gear for a day of riding at a resort)? Like I said, I got a pack that has a hydration system, so I can put food and stuff in there. I always have a pocket knife on me when I go boarding. Maybe I should get a hiking pole to help when hiking up? I'll deff bring different layers because of the wide range of temps, plus the work of hiking: I don't want to work up a sweat when it's 35* out.

[Grill]

The hike to the top is easy and the way down is quick. Don't wrap up too much. Hiking poles are useless, just use your board.

[punkrock89]

Okay. Good to know. Like I said, I've never done back country before, and have never ridden there, so I really didn't know what would be over doing it.

[Chello0o]

My room mate from WSSC, the snowboard camp I went to last summer, was from Pheonix and said the riding at Flagstaf ws super sick

[Grill]

My room mate from WSSC, the snowboard camp I went to last summer, was from Pheonix and said the riding at Flagstaf ws super sick

He must have a very creative definition of "super sick". :rolleyes:

[punkrock89]

Yeah, I wouldn't call Snowbowl sick at all from what I've seen. I mean, it looks decent, but not "super sick."

[Jibberific]

more like, "sick enough"

[beger9]

i live in Arizona, and to tell you the truth you should just drive to big bear or telluride to snowboard... snowbowl isnt great at all, and sunrise is okay but half the time they only have a few runs and a couple of lifts open.. your best bet is to go out to big bear or somewhere..

[toeknee]

why the hell would you want to hike a mountain just to go down it. Rather just ride down and hop on the lift machine and ride down instead of lugging your **** around walking up some snow.

jk fresh pow is great.